May 13, 2022

Indian Destroyers & Frigates: Russian Gear Inferior

On May 9, 2022, Gessler kindly provided the following comments:

While I'm sure several factors (to include deficiencies in crew training and/or motivation at several levels) would have gone into this as well as the Moskva incident, I must point out that the equipment cannot be ruled out as the main culprit either. I'm specifically talking about the AK-630 close-in weapon system (CIWS) cannons & its supporting systems as well as some of the Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) complexes like the Shtil-1 (naval Buk)  .

Allow me to summarize the Indian Navy's nearly 40-year journey with those weapon systems, and the solutions sought to mitigate their shortcomings.

DESTROYERS

If we look at the Project-15 Delhi-class destroyers designed with Soviet inputs in the late 1980s, you'll find they're equipped with the AK-630 CIWS and the Shtil-1 complex, with the MR-123 & MR-90 Fire Control Radars (FCRs) respectively providing the targeting cues.

I'd gather the experience with the CIWS wasn't very good for the Indian Navy so the process began to replace the parts that don't work (radars & fire control systems (FCS) while retaining the parts that work fine (the rotary mechanism & the gun itself). 

On the Delhi-class destroyer’s successor, the Project-15A Kolkata-class, you'll see that while the AK-630 system has been retained. Its underperforming MR-123 (see 2nd paragraph) FCR is nowhere to be seen. CIWS guns obviously cannot work without radar cues so the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the 'back-end' electronics of the AK-630 have been 'indigenized' to the extent where the ship's main Elta EL/M-2248  MFSTAR multifunction Active Phased Array Radar (APAR) itself can provide targeting cues for the AK-630's FCS.

Speaking of the MFSTAR radar...The operational experience with the Delhi-class destroyers Russian systems must have been quite unpleasant for the Indian Navy because as soon as the MFSTAR radar & the Barak-8 SAM system (jointly developed by India & Israel) became a viable alternative, they went to the extraordinary length of changing the configuration of the then-under construction (in 2000s) Kolkata-class ships AFTER they had already been launched, in order to remove the Shtil-1/MR-90 complex and replace it with the considerably superior Barak-8/MFSTAR complex - a system which now even allows for Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC), something the Russian surface fleet can only dream of at the moment. This abrupt change in configuration induced quite a massive delay to the destroyer program, but the Navy must have thought it worthwhile.

See the original Kolkata-class configuration above, before the change.

But the discontent with Russian equipment was not limited to just Air Defence systems. It also extended to Surface-to-Surface Missile (SSM) systems like the BrahMos. Again, the kinetic & aerodynamic properties of the weapon were good enough (excellent, even), but was again let down by poor fire-control & electronics. 

On top of the bridge of the Kolkata-class, you'll find a Russian radar called the 3Ts-25E Garpun-B. This was the main FCR for designating targets for the BrahMos SSM. The Indian Navy understandably wasn't that happy with it...evidenced by the fact that the Kolkata's successor, the latest Project-15B Visakhapatnam/Vizag-class destroyer no longer carries that radar.

Obviously the ship's 16 x BrahMos SSMs still require fire control, that fact taken together with this news of tests of the SSMs with "advanced indigenous technologies" and "modified control system". This allows us to infer that the original Russian seeker-head & FCS of the BrahMos have now been replaced with Indian-built alternatives (see product posters here and here ). They now allow for the ship's main MFSTAR radar to also perform fire control for the BrahMos as well.

FRIGATES

Unfortunately, while the destroyers continued to evolve & get better with Western/Israeli/Indian technologies gradually replacing the Russian ones, the frigate classes of the Indian Navy continue to flounder. In 2018 India ordered 4 vessels of the Admiral Grigorovich-class (the exact class as Russia’s Admiral Makarov). This adds to 6 Russian built Indian frigates of the Talwar-class an earlier version. These Indian purchases of Russian built frigates can only be explained away as a piecemeal order to keep the Russians happy in exchange for their services elsewhere (we all know where). 

[Pete comment: At 4,000 tonnes displacement the Russian designed/built frigates are too small for India's growing blue water navy. I suspect “elsewhere” to be Russian assistance with India’s nuclear tipped Agni ballistic missiles and with Indian thermonuclear weapons].

This is while Indian frigates of indigenous design & build like the Indian Project-17 Shivalik-class (above), displacing 6,200 tonnes, already exist in service and exceed the capability of these Russian designs.

The Indian Navy might not have been comfortable with sub-standard Russian equipment or ship designs in the destroyer classes (which form the main escort for Indian carrier groups & task forces). But India has to accommodate the Russians somewhere, so frigates got the short end of the stick.

The only silver lining as far as the frigate classes are concerned, is that these 4 Admiral-Grigorovich-class frigates might be the last vessels of the Russian 'standard' to ever enter service with the Indian Navy, as even the future frigate types seem to follow the exact same standards as set by the latest Vizag-class destroyers: 

An artist's rendering of the new Project-17A Nilgiri-class frigate now under construction and to displace 6,700 tonnes.

Goodbye Russian SAMs & Fire Control Radars!

6 comments:

Pete said...

I've taken the liberty of placing 2 of Ghalib Kabir's fine comments below this new article as Ghalib's comment are very interesting and relevant to the article above.

First comment:

"GhalibKabir said...
Hi Pete,

At the outset, let us be clear, the Makarov class is a capable frigate for ASuW and land attack missions. However, its radar, Buk missiles and EW suite have been found to be not good at detecting (ie. the radar) and responding (ie the missiles and EW suite) to sea-skimmers. In some cases the Russian surface vessels are blind to some threats all together.

Besides China, the IN has been watching since 2015 and you see IAI AESA 2248 radars becoming staple of the surface fleet of the IN. This has been now augmented for a while with regular tests of the Barak-8 against small high speed objects such as drones and cruise missiles.

Recently, the Ladakh crisis also opened the establishment eyes to India's weakness in EW
https://www.naval-technology.com/news/indian-navy-receive-electronic-warfare-shakti/

Indian surface warships are now getting this basic suite. The idea being, to be able to have a decent chance against pakistani navy supersonic cruise missiles such as the Harbah or the CM-400 AKG...

It is likely the Russian origin Krivak IV frigates (Makarov class) and their predecessors Krivak III may be protected by the AESA and Barak-8 sporting P-15B and P-17 destroyers and frigates.

PS: The 02/2019 Balakot standoff was useful because the Indian establishment got visceral confirmation of their short comings in the EW (SEAD/DEAD) department. If you read about the multiple missiles tests planned in 2022, you can see real effort being put in to address the gaps in capability.

Pete said...

Second comment:

"GhalibKabir said...
As always Gessler is excellent with the details (sorry I am quite lazy in that sense ;) )

to briefly add, from the airforce angle, ditto the AMRAAMski R-77 was apparently a sore disappointment during the Balakot Stand off which is why you are seeing the IAF also integrating the Derby ER (Stunner missile i think from Israel) and slowly the DRDO Astra as main BVRAAMs (along with the expensive Meteor in smaller numbers in the Rafales.)

The Brahmos was used in intercept operations practice for the Barak-8 apparently as a simulation of the PN Harbah missile...the results were apparently good...again the back end SI or System Integration skills of the IN and other establishments saving the day.

(Even the last Shivalik class frigates were retrofitted with the 2221 STGR and 2238 S-Band Surveillance radar...I am inclined to think the IN was really unhappy with the Fregat and other Russian radars)

I think electronics wise Russia is now really behind even the likes of Turkey (and wayyyy behind the west and Israel)."

Anonymous said...

Ghalib
Thanks for these very interesting comments. If these Russian/former Soviet systems have the weaknesses you describe, that paints a very different picture of the Russian navy’s capability. Given that ex Soviet ships elsewhere (Sovremenny in PLAN) have also been upgraded with different systems fitted, I am sure you are correct.

In this case, there seems to be a bit of bluff about the whole perception of Russian naval power. Their ships look more weakly defended than the RANs Anzac frigates, which have a phased radar and ESSMs. Now any opponent threatened by Russian ships could simply fire threaten to fire Harpoons/Exocets/Neptunes/NSSMs and it would be a brave Russian admiral to hang around.

NB this really highlights that for most AUKUS / QUAD/ NATO navies, the PLAN is the main threat, not Russia.

GhalibKabir said...

Anon@May 14, 2022, 10:04:00 PM

The Russians have fallen 2 may be 2.5 decades behind on the radar and EW electronics front, not to mention this weakness extends to sonars too (Jive Turkey explains the technicalities very well on his channel)

Considering the Soviet thinking in terms of a nuclear power with global reach, I don't think Russian planners thought a nation the size of Ukraine would show such impudence and fight back. The 1980s framework carries on in the 2020s with lethal consequences.

The Chinese have had a superb military espionage complex since 1960s precisely for this reason. Some of their AESA radars and latest fighter aircraft are uncanny western copies because they knew their Russian built Sovremennys and pre-AESA era Type-51 and early type-52 destroyers were dead ducks even against ROK navy. That is why the fleet is being built so systematically with AESA radars such as the Type 346 (C/S/X bands) incl. the Z-8 AEWs sporting AESAs of late...The naval air arm of the PLAN is also systematically ditching pulse dopplers and PESAs for AESAs.

PS: A Russian ship will be very vulnerable to any of the missiles you mention plus the Indian made seeker and electronics mounted Brahmos. Their subs except possibly the very high end Borei and Yasen classes are likely vulnerable to advanced western sonars.

Pete said...

A new Russian ship possibly damaged...

The UK Daily Star, May 15, 2022, reports https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-only-two-ships-left-26967657

"All but two ships from Russia's Black Sea Fleet have set sail for Crimea, out of range of Ukraine's deadly anti-ship missiles, leaving only two ships on patrol in the Black Sea.

...Meanwhile, Russia has dismissed Ukrainian claims that modern navy logistics ship the VSEVOLOD BOBROV had been damaged by a missile in the Black Sea.

The Russian Defence Ministry has released photos of what it said was the vessel with no signs of damage.

...Serhiy Bratchuk, a [Ukrainian] spokesman for the Odesa regional military administration in Ukraine, claimed earlier this week that the Vsevolod Bobrov had been damaged and was on fire.

“As a result of the actions of our Navy, the Vsevolod Bobrov logistics ship, one of the newest in the Russian fleet, set on fire. They say she is limping toward Sevastopol,” Bratchuk said..."

Arpit Kanodia said...

Further to add, the Indian Navy most likely ditch the ELM-2248 for NG-DDG/ FFG, for OpSec reasons.

And adopt LR-MFR. Most likely the combination going to be AD-1/AD-2XR-SAM/LR-MFR.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfB3hZ4XsAA2Tmf?format=png&name=900x900

Also, it seems like IN achieved OTH and CEC capability with BrahMos. That's why BrahMos ER variants are now tested from the Vizag class (unlike from Kolkata, which I believe her CMS still don't support OTH/CEC capability for BrahMos)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yItamfEY5YY