On Jan 3, 2021 SubMatts' reported. Now in a very clear article Defense Brief, Feb 26, 2021, with an update, reports:
"Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri announced on February 26 [2021] the signing of a 1.35 billion euro deal for the delivery of the first two U212 NFS (Near Future Submarines) to the Italian Navy.
Type U212 NFS is an evolution of the first four Type 212A air-independent propulsion (AIP) submarines that were delivered in cooperation with Germany’s thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) between 2006 and 2017.
Germany is also operating six units of the same class.
The contract for the first two [planned 212 NFS] was signed with OCCAR (Organisation Conjointe de Cooperation en matiere d’Armement, the international organization for joint armament cooperation).
While the [212 NFS] will be delivered by Fincantieri as prime contractor, TKMS will also be involved in the construction, delivering parts from its Kiel shipyard. More specifically, TKMS will build the bow sections of the boats, fuel cell systems, and other small components.
According to Fincantieri, the first two [212 NFS] are scheduled for delivery in 2027 and 2029, in time to replace the four Sauro-class submarines whose operational operational lifetime is coming to a close after 40 years of operation.
According to unofficial reports, the [212 NFS] will be slightly longer than [Italy's] 55.9-meter-long Type 212A boats Todaro, Sciré, Romeo Romei and Pietro Venuti. The increased length will provide space for additional fuel cells for extra range and additional space for new electronic warfare systems.
The [212 NFS] are also set to incorporate more technology from the Italian defense industry [especially unique Italian Lithium-ion batteries]. Italian defense technology company has been awarded a 150 million euro contract to provide a new combat management system (CMS) for the two boats. In addition to the CMS, Leonardo will also provide a simulation and training laboratory at the Italian Navy’s Submarine Centre in Taranto and a package of logistic support including staff training and a set of spare parts...
“We are going to take a real technological leap forward compared to the submarines of the previous class, starting with the design and the combat system developed along with Leonardo, which we are in charge of integrating on-board,” Fincantieri CEO, Giuseppe Bono, commented.
“This will allow Italy to continue being a main actor among the limited group of countries that can build such advanced units.”
SEE WHOLE DEFENSE BRIEF ARTICLE
13 comments:
Hi Pete,
I don't think the formal contract is signed yet even if it was in April 2020 the third Tkms contract offer was rejected, unfortunately the article is now behind a paywall. After the contract is signed it will take 8 years to get the first boat, so Norway may need a life extension of the old subs also.
And Norway doesn't like the previous buy as they didn't got involved in the manufacturing and has put up requirements to be involved this time, like in the design of the combat system. In a way Norway forced Germany to also buy the 212CD. Norwegian link
/Kjell
G'day,
Pete, you say that the Type 212A length is 55,9 meter. Most sources state 57,20 meter.
A reliable Italian source says (sorry no link) that the 212 NFS will at least be 1,5 meter longer than the 212A.
The Italian navy are operating their submarines increasingly south and east of the Suez.
This is because of the curent transitional phase from a mono-polar geo-political world to a multi-polar geo-poltical situation.
This Italian source say that there is a need for more range & endurance; more and more diverse weapon payload; and more room for Special Operations Forces (SOF).
He says that the extended range + endurance will be partly achieved via improved hydrodynamic forms. I.e. a remodelled bow like the Japanese Soryu.
In his opinion, a hul extension of just 1,5 meters to 58,70 m. is certainly not enough. More realistic is a NFS hull of comparable length as the 66,1 m. long A26 or 68,6 m. Dolphin 2.
The increasingly Italian 212 Near Future Submarine will also be a transitional boat towards a return to an Italian self developing submarine capability. Which was lost after the cancellation of the S-90 project in 1995.
Locum,
Thanks /Kjell
I have turned your comments and the link you provided: https://www.tu.no/artikler/ma-unnga-ula-tabben-forhandler-om-30-ubat-milliarder-til-norsk-industri/445360
on the possible future Norwegian-TKMS Type 212CDs into an article at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2021/02/norways-4-possible-tkms-212cds-await.html of Feb 28, 2021.
Regards
Pete
Hi Locum
@Feb 27, 2021, 8:56:00 PM
Not I but the article https://defbrief.com/2021/02/26/italy-orders-first-two-u212-near-future-submarines/ said the 212A was "55.9m".
Different Todaro class 212A age groups have slightly different lengths.
As can be seen at Italian wikipedia enty https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classe_U-212 right sidebar:
"prima serie italiana [lauched 2003-2004] 55,9 m;
seconda serie italiana [launched 2014-2015] 57,2 m"
Thanks for "A reliable Italian source says (sorry no link) that the 212 NFS will at least be 1,5 meter longer than the 212A."
Yes it appears Italy's 212 NFS as your source advises is growing longer from (the 212A Todaro second series 57.2m] + 1.5m = 58.7m.
Thanks for the Italian submarine forces change in mission area and type.
"The Italian navy are operating their submarines increasingly south and east of the Suez...
I'll turn all this int an article soon.
Regards
Pete
We must keep in mind that these quotes are a starting point on just the basics and being built in Germany. Everything else is an option, next time you buy a BMW, it will become “Painfully Obvious”. At the top of the written quote, in parentheses is the term “ Open your Wallet and Repeat After me, Help thy Self”.
Hi Pete
Perhaps you may be interested in this in-depth analysis, which illustrates the different aspects (economic, industrial, technical) of the program relating to these new submarines for the Italian Navy.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/02/italys-u212nfs-near-future-submarine-contract-signed/
It seems to me that this further contribution is also interesting.
Above all:
"The U-212 NFS represent a radical evolution compared to the U-212A from which they derive and mark the return of Italy to full sovereign production of submarines. The intellectual property of the boats, in fact, belongs to Fincantieri which means that they will be able to also be exported, while all the "Italian" industrial content has grown considerably as a whole, starting with the new CMS, developed by Leonardo with the collaboration of Fincantieri who will take care of the integration on board".
https://www.portaledifesa.it/index~phppag,3_id,4036.html
Hi Lee McCurtayne [Feb 28, 2021, 4:57:00 PM]
Unfortunately additional costs to those quoted are a reality for any submarine purchase and indeed any large complex weapon system purchase.
While submarine-MOTS implies set pricing purchases always vary to some specs eg. length of bunks + training required + translation of millions pages of manuals into the customer's language.
Off Topic: I've looked at Mercs, Beema's and even Audis and optional extra's (for what is standard equipment in Japanese cars) always seem to crop up with badge-snob-value inflated pricing.
Regards
Pete
Hi Giovanni Martinelli [at Feb 28, 2021, 10:09:00 PM]
Thanks very much for locating https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/02/italys-u212nfs-near-future-submarine-contract-signed/ and https://www.portaledifesa.it/index~phppag,3_id,4036.html .
I'll use them in a future 212 NFS article soon.
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
Cost of two 212NFS is €1,35 billion, while cost of two Taigei-classes (2nd-5th ship) which are equipped with cutting edge Type 18 torpedoes (development name G-RX6) is €1,1billion (https://news.yahoo.co.jp/byline/takahashikosuke/20201014-00202968/).
Regards
Once again, hello Pete ....!
Although completely in Italian, this further article represents everything known about these new Navy submarines.
Therefore, a rather in-depth analysis.
I hope it will be useful for you.
Regards
Giovanni
It seems I forgot the link...
Sorry!!
Here it is:
https://www.analisidifesa.it/2021/03/il-programma-per-i-nuovi-sottomarini-u212-nfs-della-marina-militare/
Regards
Giovanni
Hi Anonymous [at Mar 2, 2021, 3:00:00 PM]
Cost of such large, complex, items as submarines, depends so much on many considerations, eg. what is included, nationality of customer, and customer's relationship with builder.
eg. 212 NFS will be much cheaper for the regular Italian Navy customer than some new customer with no buying, training, or Italian Department of Finance record.
Equally KHI/MHI will sell Taigeis at much lower prices to their Japanese Navy customer of 50+ years, where little new training is reguired, and few technology transfer concerns + Japanese Ministry of Finance pays for (or budgets) everything anyway.
In contrast selling Taigeis to new foreign customers involves higher costs for financial risk, profit margins, massive sensitive technology transfer concerns, translation of millions pages manuals and design plans into English. English langauge training for 100s of Japanese etc.
Regards
Pete
Hi Giovanni Martinelli [at Mar 3, 2021, 3:35:00 AM and 4:15:00 PM]
Thanks for https://www.analisidifesa.it/2021/03/il-programma-per-i-nuovi-sottomarini-u212-nfs-della-marina-militare/
Very informative. I'll use it when I write an update on the 212 NFS, probably tomorrow.
Regards
Pete
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