Lithium-ion Batteries (LIBs) can be recharged to a higher total capacity and more quickly than Lead-acid Batteries (LABs). But to do this LIBs require more powerful diesels. So Japan has been installing more powerful Kawasaki diesels in its new Taigei-class submarines.
Wispywood2344 on September 24, 2022 commented + some additions by Pete:
Japan's Soryu Mk.1s [see table below] are equipped
with LABs and use conventional diesel gensets [that are likely 2 x
But the LABs can only absorb 60-70% of maximum diesel power - amounting to 3,700 kW (= 2 x 1,850).
This results in an Indiscretion Ratio (IR) of about 9-10% at an average speed of 4kt. This is without using the Soryu Mk.1's Stirling engine AIP.
The Taigei-class submarines use LIBs instead of LABs. These LIBs can be recharged to a higher extent than the diesels to LABs 70% rating and more quickly.
The Taigei's likely 2 x 12V25/31S diesel gensets can be run [at a maximum 5,520kW (= 2 x 2,760) with almost all absorbed by the LIBs. This represents 50% more than the Soryu Mk.1's previous 12V25/25SBs working with LABs [1].
As a result, LIB charging power is greatly increased and the IR, at an average speed of 4kt, is reduced to about 4-5%.
Pete Comment
More and more countries are adopting LIBs for their submarines, but to quickly recharge the LIBs to their fullest extent requires much more powerful diesels. The world's most common submarine diesel maker, MTU, might need to learn from Japan's Kawasaki what level of genset power will be required. Will MTU 4000s be powerful enough?
[1] More informations see Japanese Ministry of Defense's Technical Research and Development Institute (TRDI) specification "New Snorkel Generator System (Part.1)". p.10
Number of LIB/"SLH" Modules Disagreement
In the Table below you will see:
- agreement between Wispywood2344 and Anonymous on 640 LIB (Japanese codename "SLH") modules for submarines 27SS and 28SS
- but disagreement between them on the number of LIB/SLH modules for 29SS and 30SS (Wispywood2344 says 640 and Anonymous says 720).
Pete has noted this disagreement in the Table below.
TABLE
Submarine Matters' Oyashio-Soryu-Taigei Table, as at March 21, 2023.
SS No. Diesel Type Motor | Build No Name | Pennant No. | MoF approved amount ¥ Billions FY | LABs, LIBs, AIP | Laid Down | Laun -ched | Commi ssioned | Built By |
5SS Oyashio | 8105 Oyashio | SS-590/ TS3608 | ¥52.2B FY1993 2 x 12V25/25S diesels for all Oyashio class (each diesel 2,000kW) | LABs only | Jan 1994 | Oct 1996 | Mar 1998 | KHI |
6SS-15SS Oyashios 10 subs SMC-7? | 8106 -8115 various | SS-591-600 | ¥52.2B per sub FY1994-FY2003 | LABs only | 15SS Feb 2004 | 15SS Nov 2006 | 15SS Mar 2008 | MHI & KHI |
16SS Dragon class Mk I | 8116 | SS-501 | ¥60B FY2004 Mk.1 LAB+AIP Soryus have 2 x Kawasaki + a SMC-8 motor | LABs + AIP | Mar 2005 | Dec 2007 | Mar 2009 | MHI |
17SS | 8117 Unryū | SS-502 | ¥58.7B FY2005 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2006 | Oct 2008 | Mar 2010 | KHI |
18SS | 8118 Hakuryū | SS-503 | ¥56.2 FY2006 | LABs + AIP | Feb 2007 | Oct 2009 | Mar 2011 | MHI |
19SS | 8119 Kenryū | SS-504 | ¥53B FY2007 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2008 | Nov 2010 | Mar 2012 | KHI |
20SS | 8120 Zuiryū | SS-505 | ¥51B FY2008 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2009 | Oct 2011 | Mar 2013 | MHI |
21SS LIBs Concept Research Project | No 21SS built. It was an 8 year research project on LIBs. 1st LIBs sub launched was 27SS in 2018. | |||||||
22SS | 8121 Kokuryū | SS-506 | ¥52.8B FY2010 | LABs + AIP | Jan 2011 | Oct 2013 | Mar 2015 | KHI |
23SS | 8122 Jinryu | SS-507 | ¥54.6B FY2011 | LABs + AIP | Feb 2012 | Oct 2014 | 7 Mar 2016 | MHI |
24SS | 8123 Sekiryū | SS-508 | ¥54.7B FY2012 | LABs + AIP | KHI | |||
25SS | 8124 | SS-509 | ¥53.1B FY2013 | LABs + AIP | 22 Oct 2013 | 12 Oct 2016 | MHI | |
26SS | 8125 | SS-510 | LABs + AIP | 2014 | 6 Nov 2017 | KHI | ||
27SS a Soryu "Mk II" as it has LIBs. 1st Soryu Mk II | 8126 | SS-511 | ¥64.4B FY2015 with 2 12V25/25SB diesels (totaling 4,240kW) agree it has 640 LIB/SLH modules], other improvements | LIBs only (SLH type) | Nov 2015 | 4 Oct 2018 | 2020 | MHI |
28SS Soryu Mk II, final Soryu | 8127 | SS-512 | NCA? LIBs | Jan 2017 | KHI | |||
29SS 1st Taigei Class "Big whale" 3,000 tonne (surfaced) | 8128 Taigei "Big whale" Used as a test sub. Not opera- tional | SS-513 | ¥76B FY2017 (Heisei 29) Higher ¥76B budget may be due to 1st of class many changes. 2 x | SLH LIBs maybe 960 | 14 Oct 2020 | 9 Mar 2022 | MHI | |
30SS 2nd Taigei Class | 8129 Hakugei "White whale" First opera- tional Taigei | SS-514 | SLH LIBs | KHI | ||||
01SS 3rd Taigei Class | 8130 Jingei "Speedy whale" | SLH LIBs maybe 960+ | 2024? | MHI | ||||
02SS 4th Taigei Class | SS-516 | Impro ved SLH LIBs | 2020? | 2022? | 2024? | KHI? | ||
03SS | 8131? | SS-517 | ¥B? FY2021 | LIBs | 2021? | 2023? | 2025? | KHI? |
04SS | 8132? | SS-518 | ¥B? FY2022 | LIBs | 2022? | 2024? | 2026? | MHI? |
05SS | 8133? | SS-519 | ¥B? FY2023 | LIBs | 2023? | 2025? | 2027? | KHI? |
06SS | 8134? | SS-520 | ¥B? FY2024 | LIBs | 2024? | 2026? | 2028? | MHI? |
07SS | 8135? | SS-521 | ¥B? FY2025 | LIBs | 2025? | 2027? | 2029? | KHI? |
08SS | 8136? | SS-522 | ¥B? FY2026 | LIBs | 2026? | 2028? | 2030? | MHI? |
¥***B = Billion Yen. MHI = Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, KHI = Kawasaki Shipbuilding Corporation of Kawasaki Heavy Industries.
16 comments:
Fuel cells AIPs will not survive to the Li-Ion Batteries revolution on submarines.
Hi Anonymous @Oct 6, 2022, 5:19:00 AM
In general I think you are correct.
Certainly Japan has no longer used Stirling AIP in its LIBs submarines, which are:
- the Soryu Mk.2s Oryu and Toryu, and
- in the Taigei-class.
However South Korea's KSS-III Batch-IIs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KSS-III_submarine#Batch-II are expected to use LIBs and probably Fuel Cell AIP. The proposed KSS-III Batch-IIIs may turn out to be nuclear propelled and even nuclear armed - with a delayed completion phase somewhere in the 2030s .
Also Italy's Type 212NFS will use LIBs and Fuel Cell AIP.
Many other Planned/Future LIBs submarines may not use AIP.
Regards Pete
Hi Pete
Research and prototyping of power storage & supply system for submarine has been authorized by Japanese government: (1) system design & prototyping of power storage system (4.2 billion yen) in FY2019–FY2022 (Apr/01/2019-May/31/2023), and (2) prototyping of power supply system (2.9 billion yen) and FY2019–FY2023(Apr/01/2019-May/31/2024).
Judging from various technical information, (1) and (2) might be new battery system such as all-solid-sated battery and new diesel generator respectively.
New technologies (1) and (2) seems to be applied for post Taigei-class submarine.
Regards S
Thanks S
Very interesting.
Pete
Hi Pete
(2) in comment (Oct 10, 2022, 7:54:00 PM) does not mean new diesel generator.
MOD describes “Research and prototyping of power storage & supply system for submarine” as follows:
“It is expected to establish technologies for increased capacity of main batteries, high density outfitting of main batteries and power supply system, effective of power conversion, and power saving.”
NDS (National Defense Standards of Japan) suggests power conversion is conversion of direct current (DC) into alternative current (AC). Then, power conversion system of DC (from main batteries) into AC (for propulsion motor) and power supply system might be reviewed in (2).
Regards
Thanks Anonymous @Oct 14, 2022, 1:16:00 PM
For the extra information.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taigei-class_submarine#Silent_drive_and_power_storage_(2017) may also be useful.
Cheers Pete
Hi Pete
As architecture of Soryu MKII equipped with 640 LIBs [wispywood2344] is based on that of Soryu MK I, arrangement of LIB module is irregular (20 rows x 12 lines x 2 horizontal sections + 10 rows x 8 lines x 2 vertical sections).
Architecture of Taigei-class is optimized and Taigei-class might be equipped with 720 LIB modules (30 rows x 12 lines x 2 sections).
Weight of LIB modules of Taigei-class is 561.6 ton (=0.78ton/module x 720 modules) is 62.4 ton heavier than that of Soryu MKII which explains weight increase (+50 ton) of Taigei relative to Soryu MKII with same sized hull.
Regards
Thanks Anonymous @Oct 21, 2022, 10:55:00 AM
I have altered the Oyashio-Soryu-Taigei TABLE accordingly.
Regards Pete
When the Collins was being designed, AIP was considered but didn’t give significant gain to justify their installation, thanks to greater recharge gains already installed. Imagine a greater recharge capability today from one newest Kawasaki Gen set and a maxed out LIB bank, but that is what’s being deliberated, “I Hope”
Hi Lee
So what are you suggesting about Aussie subs, if anything?
Cheers Pete
Hi Anonymous at [Oct 21, 2022, 10:55:00 AM].
The quantity of LIB modules for the Japanese submarines is specified in the specification document attached to the procurement contract.
I have obtained the LIB specification document of 27SS, but the quantities are blacked out. [1]
However, from the specification document of the 27SS propulsion motor, it is known that 27SS is equipped with 640 LIB modules. [2]
If the quantity of LIB modules had changed after 28SS, the specification would have been revised.
But, In fact, the LIB specification documents for 28SS, 29SS, and 30SS are the SAME VERSION as for 27SS. [3]
Therefore, the first 2 Taigei-class vessels MUST have 640 LIB modules, just like the Soryu Mk2s.
[1]JMSDF specification "Submarine main battery (SLH)", p.1
http://blog.livedoor.jp/wispywood2344/others/SLH_for_27SS_P_1_s.png
[2]JMSDF Specification "Sumbarine propulsion motor (SMC-8B)", p.9
http://blog.livedoor.jp/wispywood2344/others/SMC-8B%20P_9_s.png
[3]Summary of the Japanese submarine LIB contract
http://blog.livedoor.jp/wispywood2344/others/SLH_Contract_Summary_s.png
Regards
wispywood2344
Hi Pete and wispywood2344 (Oct 30, 2022, 1:08:00 AM).
I think 29SS/30SS are equipped with 720SLHs (720V), while 27SS/28 with 640SLHs (720V).
(Number of LIBs)
In 29SS, batterie price of LIBs (SLHs) somewhat (+few %) increased more than 27SS/28SS with the same SLHs, suggesting increase in number of SLHs. Usually, price of procurement items goes down temporally to a certain limit due to improve of production.
(Stability and electromagnetic balance of submarine)
In 27SS/28SS, additional 160SLHs (80 SLHs + 80 SLHs, 8 rows x 10 columns x 2 sets?) are arranged in double-decker fashion in MKI LOx section, resulting in increase in height of gravitational center and vertical imbalance of electromagnetism.
(Voltage of SLHs-set)
I think voltage of SLHs (36V for a SLHs) is the same for 27SS/28SS and 29/30SS. In 27SS/28SS, voltage of additional 160SLHs and existing 480SLHs must be same, but existing 480SLHs are arranged in 12 rows x 20 columns x 2 sets. Double folded and direct connected 20 SLHs (36V x 20 =720V) are arranged from bow to stern. In NDS (National Defense Standard of Japan) F8004-2 4.2.12, voltage is specified 340-670V, but F8004-2 is the standard for Soryu MKI and not for LIBs submarine.
(Weight increase of 29/30SS)
Weight of 29/30SS increases 50 ton more than 27/28SS with same dimension, adoption of floating deck cannot explain this increase. If 29/30SS equips with additional 80 SLHs (+ 62.4t = 0.78t x 80), weight increase of 29/30SS can be explained.
Regards
Hi wispywood2344 @Oct 30, 2022, 1:08:00 AM
and
Anonymous @Nov 1, 2022, 11:04:00 AM
Please note in article "Taigeis: LIBs: More Powerful Kawasaki Diesels: Table" at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2022/10/taigeis-libs-with-more-powerful.html
Which is now dated October 30, 2022.
I have added text under "Number of LIB/"SLH" Modules Disagreement"
"In the Table...you will see:
- agreement between Wispywood2344 and Anonymous on 640 LIB (Japanese codename "SLH") modules for submarines 27SS and 28SS
- but disagreement between them on the number of LIB/SLH modules for 29SS and 30SS (Wispywood2344 says 640 and Anonymous says 720)."
I have noted this disagreement in the article Table.
Regards Pete
Hi Pete
Despite difference-of-opinions, anonymous @Nov 1, 2022, 11:04:00 AM highly appreciates wispywood2344.
Regards
Hi Pete
Energy of total SLHs is 62-74MWh and 70-83MWh for Oryu/Toryu,and Taigeis, respectively suggesting maximum endurance to be 9-11days and 10-12days [3].
Calculation:
[1] https://www.gs-yuasa.com/gyt/jp/products/space/
High performance lithium-ion battery for space: energy density 168Wh/kg, 130(W)x50(D)x271(H)mm
Energy density of this battery is ca.20% higher than [2] suggesting energy density of [2] is 140Wh/kg.
[2] https://www.gs-yuasa.com/gyt/jp/products/lithium_l.php
Large lithium-ion battery for space: energy density 140Wh/kg
[3] Estimated energy of submarine (Oryu/Toryu, Taigeis) with SLH (weight 770kg) based on [1] and [2]
If 10% of SLH is used for frame and so on, then energy of SLH is 0.097-0.116MWh
(770kg x 140Wh/kg x 0.000001 MW/W or 770kg x 168Wh/kg x 0.000001 MW/W)
Energy: 62-74MWh [Oryu/Toryu, 640SLHs], 70-83MWh [Taigeis, 720SLHs]
(0.097MWh x 640 or 0.116MWh x 720 for Oryu/Toryu)
If daily energy consumption at surveillance is 6MWh [4] and depth of discharge is 90% for SLH, then maximum endurance is 9-11days [Oryu/Toryu] and 10-12day [Taigeis].
(62MWh / 6MWh x 0.9 or 74MMWh//6MWh x 0.9)
[4] Considering larger sonar system is used, hotel load is set to be 200kW. Energy of propulsion at surveillance is set to be 50kW. Then daily energy consumption is 6MWh (=(200kW+50kW)x24h).
Regards
Thanks Anonymous @Nov 8, 2022, 6:49:00 PM
I've turned this and most of your schematic diagram information into article "Japanese Submarine LIB distributions & other calculations." of November 11, 2022
at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2022/11/finsail-command-room-propulsion-diesel.html
Regards
Pete
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