October 19, 2022

France's two Subs & Exploration Offer to the Philippines

Riyaz ul Khaliq for Turkey’s Anadolu Agency (AA) October 18, 2022 reported  a seemingly odd offer “France wants to explore Filipino waters in exchange for  French submarines [presumably Scorpenes]: Report"

"Manila says deal not easy since it involves constitutional process."

Pete Comment

The Philippine economy has sufficiently grown enough to buy new naval vessels. Buying submarines is a medium term aim. 

Even in the unlikely circumstance that France would offer two Scorpenes to the Philippines completely “free”, other submarine necessities (training, spare parts, regular upgrades and repairs) run into $100s millions over time.

Also just two subs is usually too few in a world where a minimum of three vessels (as in the "Rule of Thirds") dominates most navies' thinking (Malaysia and Chile being exceptions). So the Philippine Navy, after taking on two “free” Scorpenes, may realise that paying for a third Scorpene (this time at full cost) might make more sense. Looking to the more distant future – if the Philippines became a customer for French Scorpenes it might remain a customer for a future generation of fully paid for French subs.    

French Government owned Naval Group has been interested in selling Scorpenes to the Philippines for several years. Naval Group’s desire to "give" has been heightened by Australia's cancellation of the French Attack-class submarine deal, the Netherland’s delay in choosing a Walrus-class replacement, India’s delay in the P-75(I) project, Poland's delay in the Kobben-class replacement, still early days in the process of a French Scorpene sale to Indonesia and Morocco may be interested in buying.

Mentioned in the article is that South Korea and Japan are also wishing to sell submarines to the Philippines. Germany, Sweden and now Spain might logically also wish to sell. Who knows whether Russia (the Kilo builder) is also eyeing the Philippine market, something more viable after Russia lives down the Ukraine invasion stigma. 

It is unclear whether France's alleged "exploration" offer is a media beatup. If true the offer to "explore waters" can be seen as a sweetener of alliance support wrapped up in submarines to the Philippines, This is given much of the water that the Philippines calls the "West Philippine Sea" is more commonly called the "South China Sea". Hence France would be exploring those waters in a degree of confrontation with China. France could claim to be exploring, or FONOPing, on the Philippines' behalf.

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete
I would look at this info as "interesting"!I would be highly skeptical (1in fact I believe this has 0 credibility..) although I do not understand really what exploration s all about

Anadolu is the Official Turkish news Agency
France and Turkey are really at odd on many issues leading close to (or even actual un official) armed confrontations (Cyprus, Aegean sea /, libya..) France had to send warships last year to confront Turks in the Greek water last year..

Greece , Libya Tobruk gov, Armenia , Kurdistan are close to France
France is fundamentally opposed to Turkey in the EU, opposed to immigration "helped" by Turkey
France is expelling Muslim /turkish preachers/teatchers , because France Schools system is hihgly secular (Muslim veil/cover is forbidden in gov public building, schools ect)
There is not a single week where Erdogan does not make fun of Macron..

Naval wants of course to export Sub but is really full, probably even more when more Suffren class are ordered.The main issue everywhere is capacity to deliver. TKMS just bought the old Wismar yard and uses early delivery as a key argument in the Walrus replacement competition ..Naval is proposing sub also to Marocco, on top of Indonesia where it is helping Surabaya PT yard


Pete said...

Hi Anonymous @Oct 20, 2022, 8:18:00 AM

Thanks for your info and commentary.

I have chaged parts of Pete Comment accordingly.

Cheers Pete

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, I note your comment on Naval
“ Naval wants of course to export Sub but is really full, probably even more when more Suffren class are ordered.The main issue everywhere is capacity to deliver.”

Obvious question: do you think Naval has any capacity to either build some extra Suffren SSNs for the RAN? Or could it build reactor compartments (including reactor) for Suffrens that could be joined to Australian built SSN front hull sections in ASC?

Pete said...

Hi Anonymous @Oct 20, 2022, 6:55:00 PM

This is like the perennial "should Saab build Son of Collins for Australia question?".

My answer is:

Given how badly Naval Group was bitten by Australia over the Attack Class cancellation

and Naval Group's need to finish 5 of the French Navy's own SSNs in the early-mid 2020s

and Naval Group's requirement to begin and complete 4 x 3rd generation SSBNs for the French

Navy in the late 2020s and 2030s

Naval Group would be foolhardy risking capacity on Australia again.

Cheers Pete

Anonymous said...

Does Naval Group have the capacity to build more Scorpenes for export or will these have to be built in the Philippines?

Pete said...

Hi Anonymous @Oct 21, 2022, 4:27:00 AM

"Does Naval Group have the capacity to build more Scorpenes for export [Probably]

or will these have to be built in the Philippines?"

I encourage French readers to be more definite either way.

Cheers Pete