(Table in Billions of Japanese Yen. At June 3, 2021 approx 110 Yen = 1 $US )
wispywood2344, on May 29, 2021, kindly provided the above table and comments to the effect:
I have prepared a Total Cost Table for Japanese Submarine Main Batteries above and at image (rather than website):
http://blog.livedoor.jp/wispywood2344/others/JMSDF_Submarine_Battery_Contract_v1.png
) of procurement contracts providing the total cost of the “Main Battery” (total of 100s tonnes of individual battery cells) installed/soon to
be installed on the 17 most recent Japanese submarines.
See Submarine Matters' Oyashio-Soryu-Taigei TABLE below to place the 17 subs.
These 17 submarines are:
- 1 The last sub of
the Oyashio class Japanese Submarine (JS) Mochishio
(SS15)
- +10 /The ten Lead-acid
Battery (LABs) and AIP (LABs + AIP) Soryu Mk.1 subs (JS Soryu (SS16) to JS Shoryu
(SS26) inclusive). Note there was never a sub designated "SS21" as
"SS21" was a Lithium-ion Batteries (LIBs) Development Program which years
later provided LIBs on the Soryu Mk.2s and the Taigei-class.
- +2 The two Soryu
Mk.2s (JS Oryu and JS Toryu)
- +4 The first four hulls of the Taigei-class.
The list is based on documents downloaded from the Acquisition, Technology & Logistics Agency (ATLA) of Japan’s Ministry of Defense (MoD) or ATLA’s predecessor's website. But there were many documents and some of them have already been deleted. For this reason wispy has not included the URLs of the sources.
This list shows that the price of the Main Battery (LABs for Japanese submarines codenamed “SCG”) for JS Shoryu (26SS) was 8.9% cheaper than that for the first of
class JS Soryu (16SS) and the price of LCO formula (codenamed “SLH”) LIBs for JS
Toryu (28SS) was 8.7% cheaper than for its predecessor JS Oryu (27SS).
If the price of the Main Battery is
proportional to quantity, the quantity of SCG for JS Shoryu (26SS) should be 8.7% less than that for JS Soryu (16SS) and the
quantity of SLH for JS Toryu (28SS)
should be 8.9% less than that for JS Oryu
(27SS).
A reduction in the quantity of main
batteries would mean a reduction in dive time.
How can such a "performance
reduction" be possible? It is completely irrational.
Therefore, it should be considered
that the contract price of batteries is not proportional to the quantity.
-------------------------
Anonymous commented
on June 2, 2021:
Usually, the price
of purchased items decreases somewhat every year due to progress in returning their
capital investment and work efficiency improvement and so on. If the MoD paid the
same money every day, the Board of Audit (BoA) would ask the MoD for the reason. Not
only batteries but also the price of the 12V25/25SB submarine diesels shows similar trends.
Then, the higher price
of SLHs in JS Toryu compared to JS Taigei clearly suggests increased numbers battery cells (+ca.5% = +ca.
30SLHs) of SLHs in JS Taigei.
-----------------------
Pete Comment
I agree with
Anonymous’s explanation for the cost reduction and add.
Another way of saying costs reduce due to “progress in returning their capital investment and work efficiency improvement” is the MoD and Japanese Ministry of Finance (MoF) make a conscious accounting decision to attribute more of the new Main Battery development costs to the first submarine with that Main Battery fitout.
This conscious
accounting decision is evident in the non-coincidental pattern of cost
reduction, ie. the reductions above are almost the same (8.9% versus 8.7%).
“Work efficiency improvement”
might apply to more efficient battery production and more efficient installation
of those batteries in the submarines over time.
AND/OR
It could include a much wider range
of adjustments in the submarine to accommodate a heavier Main Battery tonnage, including ballast and buoyancy changes within the sub.
-------------------
Oyashio-Soryu-Taigei TABLE as at October 15, 2021.
SS No. Diesel Type Motor | Build No Name | Pennant No. | MoF approved amount ¥ Billions FY | LABs, LIBs, AIP | Laid Down | Laun -ched | Commi ssioned | Built By |
5SS Oyashio | 8105 Oyashio | SS-590/ TS3608 | ¥52.2B FY1993 2 x 12V25/25S diesels for all Oyashio class (each diesel 2,000kW) | LABs only | Jan 1994 | Oct 1996 | Mar 1998 | KHI |
6SS-15SS Oyashios 10 subs SMC-7? | 8106 -8115 various | SS-591-600 | ¥52.2B per sub FY1994-FY2003 | LABs only | 15SS Feb 2004 | 15SS Nov 2006 | 15SS Mar 2008 | MHI & KHI |
16SS Dragon class Mk I | 8116 | SS-501 | ¥60B FY2004 all Mk.1 LAB+AIP Soryus have 2 x Kawasaki 4,240kW) + 4 AIP SMC-8 motor | LABs + AIP | Mar 2005 | Dec 2007 | Mar 2009 | MHI |
17SS | 8117 Unryū | SS-502 | ¥58.7B FY2005 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2006 | Oct 2008 | Mar 2010 | KHI |
18SS | 8118 Hakuryū | SS-503 | ¥56.2 FY2006 | LABs + AIP | Feb 2007 | Oct 2009 | Mar 2011 | MHI |
19SS | 8119 Kenryū | SS-504 | ¥53B FY2007 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2008 | Nov 2010 | Mar 2012 | KHI |
20SS | 8120 Zuiryū | SS-505 | ¥51B FY2008 | LABs + AIP | Mar 2009 | Oct 2011 | Mar 2013 | MHI |
21SS LIBs Concept Research Project | No 21SS built. It was an 8 year research project on LIBs. 1st LIBs sub launched was 27SS in 2018. | |||||||
22SS | 8121 Kokuryū | SS-506 | ¥52.8B FY2010 | LABs + AIP | Jan 2011 | Oct 2013 | Mar 2015 | KHI |
23SS | 8122 Jinryu | SS-507 | ¥54.6B FY2011 | LABs + AIP | Feb 2012 | Oct 2014 | 7 Mar 2016 | MHI |
24SS | 8123 Sekiryū | SS-508 | ¥54.7B FY2012 | LABs + AIP | KHI | |||
25SS | 8124 | SS-509 | ¥53.1B FY2013 | LABs + AIP | 22 Oct 2013 | 12 Oct 2016 | MHI | |
26SS | 8125 | SS-510 | LABs + AIP | 2014 | 6 Nov 2017 | KHI | ||
27SS a Soryu "Mk II" as it has LIBs. 1st Soryu Mk II | 8126 | SS-511 | SMC-8B motor Soryu Mk IIs may have twice as many batteries as Mk Is, ie 960 LIB-arrays in Mk IIs, other improvements | LIBs only (SLH type) | Nov 2015 | 4 Oct 2018 | 2020 | MHI |
28SS Soryu Mk II, final Soryu | 8127 | SS-512 | LIBs | Jan 2017 | KHI | |||
29SS 1st 3,000 tonne (surfaced) | 8128 Taigei | SS-513 | ¥76B FY2017 (Heisei 29) Higher ¥76B budget may be due to 1st of class many changes & new layout of LIBs. 2 x 12V25/25SB diesels or variants (totaling | SLH LIBs maybe 960 | month?in 2017 | 14 Oct 2020 | Mar 2022 | MHI |
30SS 2nd Taigei Class | 8129? Hakugei | SS-514 | SLH LIBs | 2018? | 2023 | KHI | ||
31/01SS 3rd Taigei Class | SS-515 | ¥B? FY2019 (Reiwa 01) | SLH LIBs maybe 960+ | 2019? | 2021? | 2023? | MHI? | |
02SS 4th Taigei Class | 8130? | SS-516 | Impro ved SLH LIBs | 2020? | 2022? | 2024? | KHI? | |
03SS | 8131? | SS-517 | ¥B? FY2021 | LIBs | 2021? | 2023? | 2025? | KHI? |
04SS | 8132? | SS-518 | ¥B? FY2022 | LIBs | 2022? | 2024? | 2026? | MHI? |
05SS | 8133? | SS-519 | ¥B? FY2023 | LIBs | 2023? | 2025? | 2027? | KHI? |
06SS | 8134? | SS-520 | ¥B? FY2024 | LIBs | 2024? | 2026? | 2028? | MHI? |
07SS | 8135? | SS-521 | ¥B? FY2025 | LIBs | 2025? | 2027? | 2029? | KHI? |
08SS | 8136? | SS-522 | ¥B? FY2026 | LIBs | 2026? | 2028? | 2030? | MHI? |
¥***B = Billion Yen. MHI = Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, KHI = Kawasaki Shipbuilding Corporation of Kawasaki Heavy Industries.
6 comments:
Hi Pete,
Japan Now Has Its First Woman Submariner
"On May 18, 2021, Lieutenant Junior Grade Risa Takenouchi became the first female officer to serve on a submarine in the history of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF)."
/Kjell
Hi Pete and Anonymous.
According to the "General rules for submarine electric propulsion system", Sōryū Mk.1 has 480 SCGs.[1]
Since there is no information that the quantity of SCGs varies from ship to ship, it should be considered that every Sōryū Mk.1 has 480 SCGs.
This is quite natural, considering that the arrangement and quantity of main batteries strongly affect the overall mass and the position of the centre of gravity of the submarine.
By the way, If the principle that the procurement price of items decreases year by year is absolute, then the price of SCGs should also decrease consistently.
However, the price of SCGs for 22SS(Kokuryū) is 4.2% higher than that for 20SS(Zuiryū), which is contrary to this principle.
In other words, a price increase of this magnitude can occur without a quantity increase.
Therefore, the fact that the price of SLHs for 29SS(Taigei) has risen by 3.4% compared with those for 28SS(Tōryū) is no basis for the claim that the quantity of SLHs for 29SS(Taigei) has increased compared with 28SS(Tōryū).
Ultimately, in order to settle this argument, we have to refer to the procurement contract and/or its annexes.
One of those annexes is the specification document.
The specification document of SLHs for 27SS(Ōryū), which I received from the MoD, lists the contract quantity for one ship.[2]
Also, as I have previously stated in the procurement contract list, the specification documents of SLHs for 28SS(Tōryū) & 29SS(Taigei) & 30SS are the same version as that for 27SS(Ōryū).
These facts mean that the quantities of SLHs to be installed in these 4 ships are all identical.
[1]https://www.mod.go.jp/atla/nds/F/F8004_2.pdf#page=29
[2]http://blog.livedoor.jp/wispywood2344/others/SLH_for_27SS_P_1_s.png
Regards
wispywood2344
Hi Pete and wispywood2344 (Jun 6, 2021, 6:43:00 PM)
Quantities of SLHs in Taigei increase than those in Ouryu and Toryu.
Usually, Japanese submarine is built every year. SS505 Zuiryu and SS506 Kokuryu were ordered in 2008 and 2010, but no submarine was ordered in 2009 according to Midterm Defense Buildup Program (Apr/2005-Mar/2010). Two years interval of building might provide decrease in production efficiency, therefore increases in cost. BoA (Board of Audit) never admit cost increase without rational reason, but the cost increase of SCGs in Kokuryu seems to be rational and acceptable for BoA.
As SS-511 Ouryu, SS-512 Toryu and Tagei were ordered in regular basis, cost increase of SLHs in Taigei without their quantity increase is not rational.
[1]In the case of 980SCGs production (480SCGs for new submarine, 480SCGs for battery replacement), their production in 2010 is 480SCGs (=50% of 2011). Battery manufacturer can not supply SCGs without price increase.
Regards
On comment (Jun 27, 2021, 5:36:00 PM)
Another reason for increased cost of SCGs in Kokuryu might be revision of SCGs. SLHs in Taigei yet experienced such revision.
Arrangement and quantity of SLHs which could not be optimized in Ouryu and Toryu due to their AIP-originated architecture are optimized in Taigei.
Hi Pete
Sea trial of latest Japanese submarine, Taigeai has started [1]. Bridge of Taigei is longer than that of Soryu-class submarine as shown in video and picture [2, 3, 4].
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XMpMQaEdIA
“Departure of SS-513 Taigei for sea trial”
[2] ibid, 2:28/10:37
[3] https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%9D%E3%81%86%E3%82%8A%E3%82%85%E3%81%86%E5%9E%8B%E6%BD%9C%E6%B0%B4%E8%89%A6#/media/%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB:JS_Hakuryu_(SS-503)_arrives_at_Joint_Base_Pearl_Harbor-Hickam_for_a_scheduled_port_visit,_-6_Feb._2013_(YP255-023).jpg
Picture of Hakuru, the third ship of Soryu-class submarine
[4] Length/height of bridge: 2.4 for Taigei, 2.1 for Hakuryu
Regards
Hi Anonymous [your Sep 5, 2021, 6:53:00 PM]
Thanks so much for your comment.
I have turned it into article https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2021/09/taigei-submarine-has-longer-probably.html of September 9, 2021.
Regards
Pete
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