November 12, 2018

Submarine LIBs for India, Australia, France, Germany, Norway, Poland, Netherlands, Sweden?


Anonymous has kindly provided comments on November 11, 2018 on foreign interest in Lithium-ion Batteries (LIBs) for submarine. Supporting information is difficult to find, but information from Anonymous is usually accurate. 

Pete has put the comments into more standard English and added some comments in [...] brackets.

The Indian Navy is seriously considering the introduction of LIBs into its submarines. India is very interested in Lithium Titanate LTO, Super Charge Ion Battery
SCiB™ by Toshiba) [1]. India’s very good bilateral relationship with Japan could contribute to technology transfer of LTO/SCiB from Japan to India. If India requests this technology transfer, Japan rejecting such a request may be difficult because Japan already proposed LTO/SCiB for Australia [probably in Australia’s 2016 Future Submarine competition].

In Euronaval 2018 [Paris, October 2018] Germany's TKMS exhibited a LIB Prototype for SSKs such as in its Type 212CD [2] [3]. Details are unknown, but, [Anonymous] can estimate some features of this Prototype. As TKMS co-developed LIBs with SAFT, the Prototype is Lithium Iron Phosphate LFP (voltage 3.2-3.3V, capacity 90-120Wh/kg, cycle life 1000-2000, safest next to LTO). As the LFP Prototype’s intended application is in the TKMS future Type 212CD, the dimensions of the LFP Prototype is the same as the Exide-Technology’s LAB currently used in Type 212As. Presumably, the total energy density of the LFP Prototype in the Type 212CD is 2-3 times higher than the Exide LAB in the Type 212A. This would result in a better indiscretion ratio and higher speed performance in the future 212CD.

Whether LIBs have been proposed for Type 212CD which may respond to Poland’s ORKA future submarine program is unclear. [Pete Comment - The 
Type 212CD has already been ordered for the German and Norwegian Navies.]

Anonymous believes TKMS will propose a FC-AIP, with LIBs submarine for the Netherland’s Walrus replacement program. This LIBs incentive is because defeat of TKMS in the Walrus replacement competition may be economically very damaging for TKMS. Naval Group will also propose a LIB submarine option for the Walrus replacement.

Unless Sweden’s SAAB proposes LIBs for the Netherland’s Walrus replacement concept, SAAB may find winning the Walrus competition quite difficult. The developmental status of LIBs for SAAB submarines has not yet been reported. SAAB may obtain (SCiB™) LIBs by technology transfer from Japan’s Toshiba. Sweden and Japan are close with SAAB relations with Japan's Ministry of Defense (MoD) being quite good. [Pete Comment – This may go back to the early 2000s when SAAB negotiated with MoD on the transfer of Stirling AIP technology for Japan's Soryus.] The Administration of Japanese Prime Minister Abe has been moving Japan (
which includes 
Toshiba) into the international arms business.

[1] The Indian Navy pointed out the following advantages of SCiB™ LTO LIBs:
i) safety of minimal heat generated from internal shorting,
ii) long 12,000 cycle life,
iii) rapid recharging in 6 minutes,
iv) “instant and high output of large current”,
v) “wide effective SOC (state of charge) range which provides large capacity”, and
vi) low temperature performance which permits operation even at minus 30C.
The Indian Navy said “Japan and India share a lot of common interests as well as the challenge posed by its neighbouring nations. The current government dispensation [Administrations?] at both these countries share friendly relationship and personal bonhomie [warmth] at the leadership levels. “
[see SCiB™ on Toshiba website]


[3] [See previous Submarine Matters October 25, 2018 article on French Naval Group and German TKMS looking at SAFT Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries.]

Anonymous

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Indian Navy is seriously considering introduction of LIBs into submarine. She is very interested in Lithium Titanate (LTO, SCiB™ by Toshiba) [1] and expects that very good bilateral relationship between India and Japan will contribute to technology tranfer of SCiB from Japan to India. If India requests the said technology transfer, reject the request may be difficult because Japan had already proposed SCiB-submarine to Australia.

In Euronaval 2018, TKMS Showed Li Ion Battery Prototype for SSK such as 212CD [2]. Details are unknown, but, we can estimate some features of this Prototype. As TKMS co-developed LIBs with SAFT, the Prototye is LPF (voltage 3.2-3.3V, capacity 90-120Wh/kg, cycle life 1000-2000, safest next to LTO). As the Prototype is intended application in 212CD, dimension of the Prototype is as same as Exide-made LABs currently used for 212A. Presumably, total enenegy density of the Prototype in 212CD is 2-3 times higher than LABs in 212A resulting in better indiscretion ratio and high speed performance.

Proposal of LIBs-212CD for the ORKA program of Poland is not clear, but, I believe TKMS will propose FC-LIB submarine for the tender of Walrus replacement program of Netherland, because defeat in Walrus replacement may deliver final blow against TKMS. Naval Group will also propose LIB submarine.

Unless SAAB proposes LIB Walrus-concept, winning of SAAB in the tender may be difficult. But, developmental status of LIBs for submarine by SAAB is yet reported. If technology transfer of LIBs from Toshiba/Japan to SAAB/Sweden is conducted, SAAB can propose LIB (SCiB™) Warlus-concept. Sweden is friendly country of Japan and relation between SAAB and Japan MoD is quite well. Abe administration is trying to export weapon and Toshiba is starving money.

[1] Indian Navy pointed out following advantages of SCiB™ : i)safety of minimal heat generated from internal shorting, ii) long life of 12,000 cycle life, iii) recharging rapid in 6min, iv) instant and high output of large current, v) wide effective SOC (state of charge) range which provides large capacity, and vi) low temperature performance which permits operation even at -30C. (Indian Navy says) “Japan and India share a lot of common interests as well as the challenge posed by its neighbouring nations. The current government dispensation at both these countries share friendly relationship and personal bonhomie at the leadership levels. “

[2] https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/naval-exhibitions/2018/euronaval-2018/6606-euronaval-2018-tkms-showcasing-li-ion-battery-prototype-for-ssk.html

regards

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Then the State Minister of Defense, Tomohiro Yamamoto visited Sweden on 15-18 Jan/2018. He and Swedish counterpart agreed to “strengthen bilateral relations including defense equipment and technical cooperation.” The State Minister also visited SAAB and exchanged opinions.

The expression, “strengthen bilateral relations including defense equipment and technical cooperation” is not used for other European countries except UK.


Regards

Pete said...

Thanks Anonymous

Re Japanese State Minister of Defense, Tomohiro Yamamoto's visit to Sweden on 15-18 January 2018.

LIBs, advanced Snorkels, AIP and submarine diesels may possibly have been discussed.

Regards

Pete

Anonymous said...

I read this article https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/what-exactly-is-the-collins-life-of-type-extension-part-2-a-mindset/ with interest. As a non-technical civvie I wondered what a LOTE could possibly involve (apart from non penetrating optronic masts). Could LIBS be in the mix for Collins? What are the size/weight differences for a swap-out and are there voltage transformers (or something like that) to convert the different input/outputs so diesel generators, motors, and the whole electronic suite don't also by necessity need to be swapped out?
Anon

Pete said...

Hi Anon [at 20/11/18 2:58 PM ]

I have no answers for most of your questions but what is already public when the upgrade/extension was a public issue in March 2016:

https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2016/03/collins-midlife-upgradeextension.html "Collins Midlife Upgrade/Extension - Companies, Tomahawks and Possible Timings"

"In the meantime a midlife upgrade of the Collins might include more modern [Saab? Thales?] sonar[s], the latest software and hardware for its AN/BYG-1 combat system, derusting, new [lead acid] batteries, overhaul of the diesel engines and maybe introducing [already US politically/technically fitted for but not with] Tomahawks. The upgrade would cost much more than A$2 Billion total."

No LIBs as such a change would cause changes to too many aspects of the Collins including balance/buoyancy arrangments. Also the RAN is fairly conservative sub wise and LIBs on submarine are too untried everywhere except Japan and South Korea.

Cheers

Pete