Comparison between
submarines
|
older model
|
TKMS Type
212A
also Todaro
|
When first launched
|
Sept 1980
|
March 2002
|
When last launched
|
Oct 1999
|
July 2015
(Todaro batch)
|
Propulsion motors
section length
|
4 motors = 2 main + 2 small “economical” “silent” motors, [1] 7m
|
1 PMSM 1.7m
|
Diesel engines
|
2, around 10m
|
1, around 10m
Fuel cell 2.8m
|
Non-propulsion hull length
|
56.1m
|
40.0m
|
Total
submarine length
|
70-73.8m (see
|
56.0m to
57.2m (2nd batch)
(see sidebar)
|
[1] Length of Kilo 877’s economic-silent motor + main motor (4.4MW)
is around 7m. When compared to the 212A’s PMSM (of 2MW) at 1.7m long,
miniaturization and simplification of propulsion motor system is probably
necessary in Russian conventional submarines.
Particularly in the narrows and rocky holes of the Baltic Sea, where the Kilo 877 encounters the 212A, the 212A having a much shorter length overall and having an X-plane tail may tend to make it more manoeuvrable hence able to hide in smaller holes than the Kilo 877. Although the effectiveness of the Kilo's internal thrusters/impeller tunnels may give Kilos some advantages (unassessible at this open source level).
Diagram of Type 212A that highlights location and rough size of propulsion elements (Diagram courtesy Naval Technology).
---
If 212A’s silent running
Fuel Cell, (see above) at 2.8m long, is added into the comparison then the Kilo has less of
an overly long propulsion problem.
Kilo Project 877 interior diagram above. (See much larger more readable diagram at source https://www.soumarsov.eu/Sous-marins/Post45/877/877_schemdet_agrandi.htm )
On the larger diagram the following parts can be identified:
1. Sonar base MGK-400 RUBIKON
2. 533mm torpedo launch tubes
3. First section (Front / torpedoes)
4. Anchor windlass
5. Front hatch
6. Reserve torpedo with fast reloading device
7. Front dive bars
8. Crew quarters
9. Front battery
10. MG-53 AVTOGRAF sonar interceptor
11. Place where officers/crew on watch stand in the fin/sail
12. Attack periscope PK-8.5
13. Periscope PZNG-8M
14. Schnorchel mast
15. Diver's hatch
16. Radar mast MRK-50 KASKAD
17. ZAVESA direction finder mast
18. MRP-25 radar interceptor mast
19. STRELA-3 surface-to-air missile lookout container
20. Second section
21. Command Post to Control Navigation Operations (PCNO)
22. Third section (living area)
23. Rear battery
24. Fourth section (diesel generators)
25. Diesel generator
26. HP air cylinders
27. Fifth installment (electric motors)
28. Main Electric Motor
29. Emergency signalling buoy
30. Sixth Trim (Rear)
31. Rear Panel
32. Silent Electric Motor
33. Rear dive bar and rudder press
34. Rudder support
This Youtube below (presented by Gisoo Misha Ahmady in traditional dress) is inside one of Iran's three largest submarines of the Russian (Saint Petersburg) built Iranian TAREG variant (Kilo class Project 877s). We can understand the difficulty of maintaining and monitoring the 877's Lead-acid batteries (LABs). In the loss of Argentine submarine ARA San Juan one of the LAB section was flooded with seawater resulting hydrogen gas leakage, on ignition fire, then catastrophic explosion.
On the mainly English language Youtube above see:
2 minute 31 seconds in to 2mins 48 secs : A crewman, in hot, humid, conditions manually measures
the specific density of sulfuric acid in LABs. This density reduces with potentially dangerous
hydrogen discharge?
More specifically at:
2:31 the crewman is checking LABs on the keel, because heights of right and left hand sides of
LABs are the same.
2:40 : Other LABs are on left hand side. They are also checked. Female announcer says there are
"roughly 80 members of the crew!" Is it the same crew size in Indian Kilos?
Anonymous and Pete
the specific density of sulfuric acid in LABs. This density reduces with potentially dangerous
hydrogen discharge?
More specifically at:
2:31 the crewman is checking LABs on the keel, because heights of right and left hand sides of
LABs are the same.
2:40 : Other LABs are on left hand side. They are also checked. Female announcer says there are
"roughly 80 members of the crew!" Is it the same crew size in Indian Kilos?
Anonymous and Pete
5 comments:
The size of the DC motor used in the Kilo submarine is likely determined by the amount of torque that is required. To go smaller, I think Russia would need to switch to AC motor?
I think the main difference between project 877 and 636 is the addition of a planetary reduction gear to reduce propeller speed and noise.
KQN
There a photo of the Siemens Permsym submarine electric motor on their website ( plus the pdf)
https://www.industry.siemens.com/verticals/global/en/marine/marine-ships/propulsion/pages/permasyn-drive-motor.aspx
The person standing next to indicates the massive scale
Thanks Ztev
And the huge Permsym motor at
https://www.industry.siemens.com/verticals/global/en/marine/marine-ships/propulsion/pages/permasyn-drive-motor.aspx
would be only for a 2,000 tonne or less (surfaced) TKMS sub.
If Australia had bought the TKMS Type 216 its Permsym would be far larger.
I wonder if Australia's French designed future sub will have a Permsym or equivalent?
Regards
Pete
Juemont Electric has been selected as the supplier for electric motor for the Australian-French sub project
https://www.naval-technology.com/contractors/electrical/jeumont-electric/pressreleases/pressjeumont-electric-australian-submarine-programme/
http://www.jeumontelectric.com/produits/motors/?lang=en
Thanks Ztev
For the reminder that French supplier Juemont Electric has already been selected by Naval Goup to supply the Permasyn like "permanent magnet propulsion motor" for the Australian Future submarine.
I forgot Submarine Matters has already covered at http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2018/01/jeaumont-electric-have-aleady-won.html the no competition? selection of Juemont Electric to supply the motor. That selection being more than a decade before the Australian submarines will actually be launched.
Naval Group's selection of the Right Diesel will be even more important as the Wrong (Swedish Baltic suited) Diesel was the Collins' major failure.
Regards
Pete
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