Comments in Favor of TKMS and Other German Developed Submarine Products

In April 2006 a German Navy Type 212 submarine (U-32 pictured) sailed from the Baltic Sea to Rota, Spain in a journey lasting two weeks, covering 1,500nm without surfacing or snorkelling. Seven years later, while on the way to participate in naval exercises in the USA, U-32 established a new record for non-nuclear submarines with 18 days in submerged transit without snorkelling. 

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Regular commenter, the illustrious MHalblaub, has written some excellents comments of November 12, 2014, that:

-     -  Successfully refute some of my statements at http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/submarine-institute-of-australias.html, and

-     -  On many aspects of submarine diesel-electric propulsion systems are beyond my level of knowledge.

So I have posted MHalblaub’s comments below so they can be read more easily on this blog and commented on at length. MHalblaub commented November 12, 2014:

“you write: "Repair facilities in Japan relatively close compared to Germany or France."

On the other [hand you earlier mentioned] that South Korea already does build Type 214 submarines. Therefore Australia has repair facilities [near] Japan for submarines designed by TKMS.

The engines are likely to be [German developed] MTU 4000 based generators no matter which submarine [is chosen - HDW 216 or Soryu] . In case of rechargeable lithium batteries the MTU 396 offers not enough power to provide maximum current to charge the new type of batteries. The 28 MTU 4000 are already in RAN use on 14 Armidale-class patrol boats. [see righthand sidebar of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armidale-class_patrol_boat "Propulsion: 2 × MTU 4000 16V 6,225 horsepower (4,642 kW) diesels driving twin propellers"]

 So Australia should know how reliable these engines are. The French SMX Ocean solution with six engines seems to be an ad hoc solution to provide enough power to charge the lithium batteries.

Btw. Dolphin 2 class might already have lithium batteries and the MTU 4000. Only for Dolphin 1 class reliable information is available. Dolphin 2 class is a black box just like Type 218. I still believe these submarines are just relabeled Type 214 with enhanced propulsion MTU 4000 + lithium batteries. The price of 1 billion Euro for two [HDW 218SG] submarines is just too low for more displacement.

According to the SMX Ocean there is a big question mark about the second AIP technique proposed by DCNS. It is not so easy to reform a high quality fuel (hydrogen) for a fuel cell out of standard diesel oil. It might work with very clean bio diesel but “dirty” standard diesel could ruin the fuel cells or the filters very fast. DCNS will for sure offer replacements … Standard fuel cells work with pure hydrogen and oxygen. Methanol or ethanol reformer work rather well with clean fuel. Direct methanol fuel cells are best feed with bio ethanol with even less contamination than standard ethanol.

 

According to DCNS’ video clip MESMA is the worst AIP system available for long endurance missions – 14 days at 4 kn are just 1344 nm. The 2nd generation AIP by DCNS with an expected endurance of 21 is not much better than the 1st generation AIP on first batch of small German Type 212: proven [submerged] endurance of 18 days.

http://www.welt.de/regionales/hamburg/article114619845/Deutschem-U-Boot-gelingt-Rekordfahrt-ueber-Atlantik.html SMX Ocean was a nice eye catcher for EURONAVAL 2014.”

COMMENTS

Australia by the Indian Ocean sorely needs Japanese and French advocates to support any case for buying Soryus or DCNS submarines :)

Pete

Submarine Institute of Australia's Centenerary Conference 2014 - No Japanese Delegation?

The HDW Dolphin 2 - tailored for Israel. Note the robust lower hull - for moving near the sea-floor, or sitting on it? Note also the complex rudder system - for manoeuvring this large submarine in shallow seas? 

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The vivid color scheme of the HDW Dolphin 2 (being towed backwards out of its base at Haifa?) suggests that Israel operates it in shallow seas in daylight.

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The Submarine Institute of Australia's (SIA's) Centenerary Conference 2014 currently being held in Fremantle, Australia, November 11-13, 2014, is a prime venue for submarine builders to offer up solutions for Australia's Future Submarine project.

Representatives of foreign governmental and corporate sales teams are present from Germany, France, the US, UK, Sweden and Spain. Many Australian officials, union leaders, naval officers, South Australian State and Federal Opposition politicians are present.

Two key groups not scheduled to give presentations are Australian Federal Government politicians and any representatives of the Japanese Government or Japanese corporations. Australian Federal Government politicians, after all, represent the ultimate decision makers on any Future Australian submarine selected. At the last SIA Conference, 2 years ago, a Defence Minister gave a speech, but none appears scheduled to speak (or be present?) at the current conference.

As Japan's Soryu is considered the most likely submarine to be selected the lack of a large (or any?)  Japanese delegation is quite odd. Furthermore no Japanese submarine builders or naval officers are scheduled to speak. Could there be a language barrier? Are Australia's Federal Government and Japan absent in order to avoid difficult questions or critical comments? Is the selection of Japan therefore a done deal that needs no further discussion?

In the very complex decision to choose Australia's future submarine the solutions of foreign sales teams have strength and weaknesses.

Japan - to be filled in tomorrow. Large design of the size Australia wants - in production, tested and operational from a strategically important regional ally. Repair facilities in Japan relatively close compared to Germany or France.

Germany - The largest foreign sales team speaking at the conference is from Germany. Germany's TKMS (including its submarine division HDW) is offering a large (4,000 ton (surfaced or submerged?)) drawing board submarine (the HDW 216 https://www.thyssenkrupp-marinesystems.com/en/hdw-class-216.html ) to the Australian Government.

As a fallback Germany may also be offering less risky prospect of the already launched HDW Dolphin 2  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin-class_submarine  (2,000 ton surfaced) a brand new design with an actual submarine delivered to Israel in September 2014. The 216 and Dolphin 2 both draw on tested technology from the HDW 209s, 212s and 214s. The Dolphin 2 has been modified to suite the warm, salty conditions of the Mediterranean, Red and Arabian seas. It has AIP and a lower structural and rudder assembly built for sitting near to or on the seafloor perhaps for near shore special forces and to launch land attack missiles against Iran. These Dolphin 2 qualities might be further developed in the future 216. The Dolphin 2 may well lack the Lithium-ion batteries that are being proposed for the latest future submarine designs. The Dolphin's range may be only 8,000 nautical miles rather than the 12,000 Australia probably wants. With 209 and 214s being built in South Korea (and many more in other Euopean countries) TKMS would have the experience to backup any building program in Australia.

TKMS is also building 2 HDW 218SGs for Singapore. If, as is possible, the 218 is a 3,000 ton design the 218 may be a good solution for Australia.

France - A smaller sales team is from France, mainly DCNS - offering the very large SMX Ocean.  DCNS is claiming that the SMX is a conventionally propelled version of the existing Barracuda SSN  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Barracuda-class_submarine . This claim is difficult to sustain. The Barracuda itself has not yet been launched. Meanwhile an SMX would have many fundamental differences in internal structure to the Barracuda. The SMX's fuel tanks, and highly complex untested propulsion system (two AIP technologies, 6 diesels and large (untested?) Lithium-ion batteries) present major differences. The high weight (4,700 tons surfaced?) could carry high capabilities but also high acquisition costs. However, if Australia were to consider the nuclear propelled Barracuda itself, that may be a good choice noting that the Barracuda's complement of only 60 is reasonable compared to the US Virginia SSN's excessive requirement for 135 crew.

Perhaps DCNS is also proposing a large version of its existing Scorpene SSK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorp%C3%A8ne-class_submarine, as a fallback(?). The Scorpene  which France may be offering, is a tested current design. Two Scorpenes have recently been delivered to Malaysia and earlier Agostas to Pakistan. This means France has experience modifying Scorpenes for the  temperature, higher salinity conditions of the Indian and Pacific Oceans, where Australia operates. France has also retrofitted MESMA AIP into some of Pakistan's Agostas and AIP is available for Scorpenes. With four Scorpenes currently being build in Brazil DCNS has the experience to backup any building program in Australia.

Sweden and Spain - to be filled in tomorrow.

Pete

Chinese nuclear propelled attack submarine docks in Sri Lanka (in Nov 2014)

A Chinese Type 091 "Han" class SSN - the latest Chinese submarine that has docked in Sri Lanka (November 2014).

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Diagram of a Chinese Type 091 "Han" class SSN - courtesy of blueprints.com .

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Anjana Pasricha on Voice of America reports, November 05, 2014 that http://www.voanews.com/content/india-concerned-about-chinese-subs-in-sri-lankan-ports-/2509079.html :

"India Concerned About Chinese Subs in Sri Lankan Ports" 

NEW DELHI—India has expressed strong concerns to Sri Lanka for allowing Chinese submarines to dock at its port this month. China’s growing naval presence in the Indian Ocean region has opened a new area of rivalry for the two Asian countries.  

When the Chinese submarine Changzheng-2 [a submarine of that name is listed as an obsolete Type 091 "Han" class SSN] and [the submarine tender] Chang Xing Dao (aka Changxing Dao) docked at Colombo harbor for five days this month, alarm bells rang in New Delhi.

[Comment: That the submarine tender] Chang Xing Dao was on hand may indicate lack of Chinese confidence in Changzheng-2's aging Type 091 "Han" class design]. Changzheng-2 was not listed as being an active service sub. This may mean that that particular 091 has unmodernised features and old electronics - making it a less valuable intelligence item for Western nations to study.] 

It was the second time a Chinese submarine docked at a Sri Lankan port - after the first [a Type 039 "Song" class SSK] arrived seven weeks ago, India quickly warned the island nation on its southern tip that their presence was unacceptable to New Delhi.

Both China and Sri Lanka dismissed Indian concerns. Beijing’s Defense Ministry said the submarines were on refueling stops during anti piracy missions in the Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden. A navy spokesperson in Colombo pointed out that in the last four years, more than 230 warships had called at Colombo port for goodwill visits or refueling.

That has failed to allay India, where worries are rising about China’s expanding footprint in the Indian Ocean, according to Sukh Deo Muni at the Institute for Defense Studies and Analysis in New Delhi.

“The fact is that the Chinese naval reach is increasing very fast, and that obviously creates some concern in India, because most of this area, particularly Bay of Bengal and Indian Ocean have been a kind of strategic turf for India," Muni said. "Particularly submarine movement is a cause of main concern. Submarines are considered to be a more potent attack vehicle.”

While the two Asian giants' territorial disputes in the high Himalayas have grabbed the most attention, analysts say their rivalry in the Indian Ocean is steadily building up.

An Indian Defense Ministry report last year warned of the “grave threat” posed by the Chinese navy in the Indian Ocean. It suggested that China is widening its orbit of patrols beyond Chinese waters to jockey for control of highly sensitive sea lanes.

The reason: much of China’s booming economy is fueled by oil shipped through the Indian Ocean from the Middle East. Resources from Africa and trade with Europe ply through the same waters.

In recent years, China has helped to build a network of ports or facilities in South Asian countries such as Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Myanmar and secured docking rights in Seychelles. China is also developing key ports in Kenya and Tanzania in East Africa.

Global presence 

Security expert Uday Bhaskar in New Delhi says China’s efforts to find a toehold in the Indian Ocean are the result of its growing global presence.

“So for China given the profile, it would seek to maintain a presence in the Indian Ocean and China also internally believes that it is vulnerable as far as the sea lines of communication are concerned from Asia and Africa," Bhaskar said. "So China has been methodically trying to increase its political linkages and access in the Indian Ocean.”

While many security experts worry about the “undue Chinese presence” in South Asia, some see no reason for alarm. They point out that ports cannot be quickly converted into naval facilities.  

“Because the fact is in war time no port in the Indian Ocean is going to be available to the Chinese navy," noted strategic affairs analyst Bharat Karnad at the Center for Policy Research in New Delhi. "No port. Because none of these countries can afford to alienate India. They all rely and have relied heavily substantively on Indian security for their protection both in the past and in the present. I see this more as a shadow play.”

In Sri Lanka, political observers say that the maritime rivalry between India and China has provided an opportunity for the small country to play off both rivals against each other. They say Colombo is increasingly relying on Beijing for both military and development support as the Asian giant invests billions of dollars to develop infrastructure.  

However, Paikiasothy Saramvanamuttu at the Center for Policy Alternatives in Colombo sounds a note of caution about Colombo’s strategic tilt toward Beijing.

“It is a game, a balance of power game Sri Lanka is playing which could be quite dangerous, for a small country to do that, because as the old saying goes, when elephants make love or war, it is the grass that gets trampled on," Saramvanamuttu said.

For the time being, India has responded to China’s growing forays in the Indian Ocean by shoring up its own partnerships with South East Asian nations such as Vietnam and taking steps to modernize its navy."

Pete

DCNS' new submerged SSK solution - Lithium-ion battery and 2 AIPs

Presented on the DCNS Group' website on 29 October 2014 is

Three technologies to improve submerged endurance [for the proposed DCNS SMX Ocean]

http://en.dcnsgroup.com/news/major-dcns-innovations-improve-submarine-capabilities/

"To meet demand from customers for improved submerged endurance of conventional-propulsion submarines (SSKs), DCNS now offers dedicated hull sections known as Autonomy Boosting Sections. Whereas SSKs typically have a submerged endurance of about three days, DCNS now proposes three new technologies to extend this critical parameter to three weeks.

The first is a hull plug equipped with new-generation high-capacity lithium-ion batteries. Easy to operate, the technology offers high submerged speeds on demand and improved response to power ramp-up and variations. Lithium-ion batteries can also be recharged at sea. The endurance of a Scorpene-type submarine is increased to seven days resulting in a significantly enhanced tactical capability.

The second solution, the Mesma air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, is packaged as a compact dedicated hull section. Mesma’s steam turbine-based technology uses a fuel that is readily available in ports and is ideal for extending an SSK’s endurance at patrol speeds. The sea-proven Mesma system increases the submerged endurance of a Scorpene-type submarine to two weeks.

The third solution, a second-generation fuel-cell AIP, represents a technological breakthrough compared to current-generation AIPs in terms of performance, safety, flexibility and maintenance. This solution combines several key DCNS innovations in fuel cell technology. Hydrogen is produced from diesel fuel by hydrocarbon reforming as required, overcoming the need to store hydrogen on board the submarine.

This revolutionary technology increases submerged endurance to three weeks; a capability that confers a decisive advantage in certain theatres of operations."

DCNS second-generation fuel-cell AIP.

COMMENTS

The complexity of two AIPs and one not fully mature battery type means some years of testing under  operational conditions would be required prior to purchase. Three weeks submerged within what speed limitations? Fire risks of Lithium-ion batteries and large stores of oxygen, ethanol and hydrogen within the one submarine? Reliability, cost, safety and speed comparisons may beg the question (or produce the reply) why not go the tried and tested nuclear reactor route?

For a description of existing AIPs (and Spain's proposed AIP as well as Russia's) see AIP Technologies and Section, August 5, 2014 http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/air-independent-propulsion-aip.html .

Also connect with France's DCNS announces the SMX OCEAN large conventional submarine http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2014/10/revised-frances-dcns-announces-smx.html

Pete

Future Australian Submarine - French and German Sales Activity

Two days after meeting Australian Defence Minister Johnston, in Perth on 2 November 2014, French Defence Minister Mr Jean-Yves Le Drian (front row, 3rd from right) was spotted (4 November 2014) aboard the DCNS produced Scorpene submarine KD Tun Abdul Razak at Sepanggar Naval Base, Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia. 
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It is natural that the French Government would be working alongside DCNS to market such a major potential export as the SMX Ocean large conventional submarine.

What may have been the initial phase of marketing the SMX Ocean to Australia at Euronaval 2014, Paris ended on 31 October 2014. 

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Now in November 2014 marketing continues with Australia future submarine needs likely to have been an item for discussion between the French and Australian Defence Ministers meeting in Perth, Australia on 2 November 2014. 

The Media Release following the meeting between Australia's Defence Minister, Senator David Johnston and French Defence Minister, Mr Jean-Yves Le Drian, did not specifically mention marketing weapon systems. However the Media Release noted:

"Both Ministers noted close cooperation on naval capabilities and the importance of continued exchanges. The Ministers concluded that France and Australia should continue to work closely on defence capabilities and to share best practices and lessons learned in operational and technical fields."

Corridor discussions with the French Delegation were likely - probably including defence officials, military officers and officials from DCNS Group Australian Branch (the Branch is based in Canberra).

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Later in November the Submarine Institute of Australia is holding a Centenerary Conference (100 years since Australia's first submarines were commissioned) 11-13 November 2014, Fremantle Western Australia. In terms of marketing opportunities the publically available program includes short presentations by potential main contractors from:

France

DCNS - Benoît Gueguen - Submarine Naval Architect, DCNS concering "The SMX Ocean, a world première" 

also a representitive of French company Sagem Defense and Security.

Germany

TKMS - Manfred Klein - Senior Vice-President, Product Management, TKMS on "Establishing a new submarine design capability: the TKMS experience."

     

TKMS - Daniel Mahon - Design Concepts Submarines, TKMS on "AIP - Reflections of a former German Submarine Captain."

also representatives from the German Navy and Siemens.

Note that a high level delegation from TKMS earlier visited Canberra in mid-October 2014.

TKMS Australia has offices in Adelaide and Melbourne, Australia.

Spain, US and Sweden

Representatives of Spain (Navantia), the US and Sweden (Navy) will also be giving presentations.

Speakers from the Japanese Navy and Japanese submarine building firms were notable by their absence - reasons may be many and varied.

COMMENT

All this French, German, Spanish and Swedish marketing activity may be in vain if the frequent Australian-Japanese ministerial level negotiations going on now result in increasingly firm proposals to buy Japan's Soryu, Mark 2 (non-AIP but Lithium-ion battery). 

Pete

Australia's vulnerable and dependent oil supplies by sea

Oil tankers serving Australia's oil needs are vulnerable as they sail through the Straits of Hormuz, then the Straits of Malacca, then to and from the main refinery in Singapore. Click on image to make it even larger. Image courtesy of stratrisks.

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One reason Australia maintains a submarine fleet is for early warning against threats to Australia's oil supply chain and to actively defend this chain.

Reported in Australia's Canberra Times, November 1, 2014:

"...two maritime hotspots that supply Australia with up to 70 per cent of its petrol, raising a concern over the nation's near-complete reliance on imported fuel.

...fuel routes between the Persian Gulf, Singapore and [then to] Australia.

...Australia now imports 91 per cent of its petrol and diesel – up from 60 per cent in 2000.

One major refinery in Singapore alone is responsible for producing half the fuel consumed in Australia.

[The Australian Government's] Bureau of Resources and Energy Economics calculates that Australia has 12 days of diesel stock but aviation fuel stocks are said to be even lower.

Australia is the only developed country without either mandated industry stockholdings, government-owned stockholdings or government control over any or some of its oil and fuel infrastructure."

Read more here.

Pete