February 26, 2019

MTU 4000s maybe on Type 218SG & future Type 212CD submarines

After use since the early 1980s of MTU 16V 396s on TKMS built submarines and even non TKMS (Chinese Ming and Song class subs?) the MTU 4000 may at last being introduced on TKMS subs.

Since 1996 more than 37,000 MTU 4000s have been sold for surface ship, train, mining, industrial and energy-pump uses.

Lower range 600 kW MTU 12V 4000s may already serve as emergency backup/return-to-port diesels on nuclear powered Astute class SSNs.

The MTU 4000s for submarine are reportedly more fuel efficient and have higher peak power than MTU 396s.

The TKMS future Type 212CD may use 2 x MTU 4000s. 

Two MTU 4000s may be used in Singapore's new Invincible class Type 218SG. Anonymous in February 21, 2019 noticed 2 x MTU 4000s on a Type 218SG  youtube diagram 42 seconds in, here https://youtu.be/I_poBnLJMew?t=42s

As MTU 4000s are mass produced in Yulin, China they may be used about China's latest Yuan class conventional submarines.

MTU 4000s may possibly be used for the major 2020s Collins mid-life upgrade (also see) and Australia's future Attack-class submarines.

On the MTU 4000 for submarine, see Arndt von Drathen’s, Applications Battery Charging Technologies for Advanced Submarine Requirements, MTU, 2011 https://mtu-online-shop.com/print/3100721_MTU_General_WhitePaper_SubmarineChargingUnit_2011.pdf see page 2:

"Since the introduction of the Series 396 in the early 1980s into the submarine application...Conventional submarines have grown in size over the last decades to meet increased transit distance requirements to the operational areas and to accommodate various Air Independent Propulsion technologies into the hull. 

Despite hydrodynamic improvements of the hull shapes, the larger displacements have led to higher power demands. This trend for more power will be even further accelerated by new Li-Ion battery technologies. Li-Ion batteries are going to increase underwater endurance and performance of submarines significantly. However, the diesel engine driven charging unit technology needs to adapt to the new requirements: firstly, more electrical power and secondly, provide rated power almost the entire operational time to fully utilize the Li-Ion advantages." 

Looking at the red "submarine-specific" portion on the page 2 diagram of the MTU 4000 is the portion on top, showing a large cylinder. Is this a muffler for quieter operation of the diesel engine?

The available photo below of an MTU 4000 for submarine shows muffler? cylinder in unpainted metal color.



Anonymous said...

Maybe they will be used on the new Australian subs.

“Diesel generators for example will be German, but we have asked the supplier to source as much as possible in Australia and the supplier has assured us that part of the production will be undertaken locally.”
Jean-Michel Billig, executive vice president of the Future Submarine program and a member of Naval Group’s executive board

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete,

A bit off the topic, now they have started the salvage of KNM Helge Ingstad, it is streamed with a 15 minute delay due to being able to cut the stream if something happens.



Pete said...

Thanks Anonymous [at 26/2/19 9:21 PM]

For spotting a February 21, 2019 article https://indaily.com.au/news/2019/02/21/defence-jobs-guarantee-could-be-lost-in-translation/

Indicating that on Australia's future Attack class submarines the “Diesel generators...will be German"

I would guess-stimate that this may more likely mean MTU 4000s rather than older MTU 396s.

I've noticed in a Feb 24, 2014 article https://www.penskeps.com/home/news_detail/35 that MTU Detroit Diesel Australia supplies MTU 16V 4000 M70s for the Royal Australian Navy's Armidale class patrol boats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armidale-class_patrol_boat

So there is an established MTU 4000 supply chain in Australia.



Pete said...

Thanks /Kjell [at 26/2/19 10:07 PM]

For Feb 26, 2019s https://www.nrk.no/hordaland/folg-hevingen-av-knm-_helge-ingstad_-direkte-1.14312996 "Follow the work: Now 300 people are working to raise KNM "Helge Ingstad"

Looking at the photos it looks like a large salvage job.

1. After months underwater I wonder whether Helge Ingstad will likely be operational again?

I note the article says gas levels are being monitored and "There are also some weapons on board, but torpedoes and missiles were removed and detonated in early February."

2. I'm guessing the weapons destroyed may in total have cost US$100+ millions already?



Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

MTU 12V 4000 (mechanical output=1300kW, Pme = 27.9MPa [1]) or MAN Diesel & Turbo 12 PA4 V200SMDS (1330kW, 25.8MPa) will be used for Attack-class and MTU 16V396 is not used thanks to low Pme (20.5MPa).

12 PA4 V200SMDS is a bit lower Pme and longer but lower rotation or piston speed (1300rpm, 9.1m/s) than 12V 4000 (1800rpm, 11.2m/s).

As Pme of Kawasaki 12V25/25SB [2] is 28.3 MPa, if 12 PA4 V200SMDS is modified (such as common rail injection system), it may achieve about 1500kW of mechanical output by 10% increase in Pme. Possibility of modification will depend on the sell price.

[1] The brake mean effective pressure (Pme) is a valuable measure of an reciprocating engine's capacity to do work that is independent of engine displacement. Higher Pme means better performance. Pme = 8 x E / (3.14 x N x S x D^2 x H). Where, Pme = bake mean effective pressure, E = mechanical output, N = number of cyliders, D = cylinder bore, H cylinder stroke

[2] Turbo & superchargers are used for Kawasaki diesel like 12 PA4 V200SMDS. Pme of Kawasaki 12V25/31 seems to be more than 30MPa.


Lee McCurtayne said...

Serious consideration of generating capacity is an imperative consideration for these emerging battery developments. Once again there is no room for underperformance in the rapidly changing power demand envelopes. The consensus will always be “more” !
Secondly, if Japan can offer local involvement and full support, consideration of the value adding to the “Five Eyes” embracement surly serves as an example of commitment to partnering. Once again who can supply continuously, no matter what the changing political landscape demands.

Pete said...

Hi Anonymous [at 27/2/19 12:17 AM]

Thanks for the information about MTU and Kawasaki diesels for submarine.

I'll publish it next week.



Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Two 2000 kW and two 3000 kW diesels are needed for middle (2000ton) and large (4000ton) SSKs with LIBs, respectively. Current MTU or MAN diesels are powerless for LIBs. New KAWASAKI 12V25/31 is most suitable for large submarine.

BTW, on FEB/26/2019, Toshiba announced new LIB [1] anode EVs (electric vehicle) has been successfully developed. New battery has higher capacity and longer life [2]. Toshiba aims for mass production in the early 2020s.

From the view point of power performance, combimation of Toshiba NTO-LIB and KAWASAKI 12V25/31is better than that of Shaft LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate)-LIB and MTU/MAN.

[1] https://www.sankeibiz.jp/business/news/190227/bsc1902270500002-n1.htm
This LIB is Toshiba’s second genereation SCiB, Niobium Titanium Oxide (NTO, https://www.zaikei.co.jp/article/20180702/451393.html).