February 1, 2018

Table of Kawasaki-MAN and wholly Kawasaki Marine Diesel Characteristics

Anonymous in Table A. has kindly submarized some characteristics of diesel engines in Japanese submarine classes since 1960. Anonymous concludes that the current 12V25/25S (of the Oyashio II and Soryu classes) represent a major improvement of power output. 

PETE COMMENT

The estimated Mechanical output of 3100 kW (or 3.100 MW) for the 12V25/31S in the future 29SS (which can be called Soryu Mk. 3 see Table B.) represents an even larger improvement. 

Note [1] (below) that these early diesels were built by KAWASAKI under licence from MAN, while [2] diesels since 1990 have been KAWASAKI's design and licence. 

For Australia's Future Submarine a broader and continuing KAWASAKI-MAN relationship, may allow Naval Group access via MAN to the Soryu's high power 2.280 MW 12V25/25SB or the Soryu Mk.3's (estimated) 3.100 MW 12V25/31S. 

KAWASAKI-MAN's relationship can be seen here"Kawasaki’s manufacture of marine diesel engines began with a licensing agreement with Germany’s MAN in 1911. Following the merger of MAN and Denmark’s B&W in 1981, Kawasaki renewed the agreement and began producing Kawasaki-MAN B&W 2-stroke diesel engines. [By 2006 Kawasaki] delivered enough MAN B&W engines to output over 10 million horsepower."

Also in 2006 "Completed the Kawasaki-MAN B&W 12K98ME, an electronically controlled marine diesel engine (93, 360 PS)."

Table A. List of Diesel Characteristics for Japanese submarine since 1960

Class
(from Wiki)
First commiss-ioned
No. of vessels
Model [1] or [2]
No. of diesels
No. of cylinders
Bore

mm
Stroke

mm
Mechanical  ouput
kW
Electrical outpout 
 kW [3]
Speed

rpm
1960
1
V8V22/30mAL [1]
2
16
220
300
993
794
850
Oshio +
1965
5
V8V24/30mMAL
[1]

2
16
240
300
993
794
850
1971
7
V8V24/30AMT [1]
2
16
240
300
1544
1235
850
1980
10
V8V24/30AMT [1]
2
16
240
300
1544
1235
850
1990
7
12V25/25S [2]
2
12
250
250
1985
1588
1200
II
1998
11
12V25/25S [2]
2
12
250
250
1985
1588
1200
Mk.1
2009
11
12V25/25SB [2]
2
12
250
250
2280
1824
1200
29SS Soryu
Mk.3?
2024?
-
12V25/31S [2] [4]
2
12
250
310
3100
2500
1200

[1]  KAWASAKI (under the license of MAN) diesels: V8V22/30mAL, V8V24/30mMAL 
       and V8V24/30AMT
[2]  Wholly KAWASAKI diesels: 12V25/25S, 12V25/25SB and 12V25/31S
[3]  Electrical output = mechanical output x the 0.8 power factor
[4]  Estimated values.


TABLE B. SORYU & Oyashio II Program as at February 12018 

SS
No.
Build No
Name
Pennant
No.
MoF approved amount ¥
Billions FY
LABs, LIBs, AIP
Laid Down
Laun
-ched
Commi
ssioned
Built
By
5SS Oyashio
8105 Oyashio
SS-590/ TS3608
¥52.2B FY1993
LABs only
 Jan 1994
Oct 1996
Mar 1998
 KHI
6SS-15SS
Oyashios
10 subs
8106
-8115
various
SS-591-600
¥52.2B per sub
FY1994-FY2003
LABs only
 15SS Feb
2004
15SS
Nov
2006
15SS
Mar 2008
 MHI
&
KHI
16SS
Soryu Mk 1
8116
Sōryū
SS-501
¥60B FY2004
LABs + AIP
Mar 2005
Dec 2007
Mar
2009
MHI
17SS
8117
Unryū
SS-502
¥58.7B FY2005
LABs + AIP
Mar 2006
Oct 2008
Mar
2010
KHI
18SS
8118
Hakuryū
SS-503
¥56.2 FY2006
LABs + AIP
Feb 2007
Oct 2009
Mar
2011
MHI
19SS
8119
Kenryū
SS-504
¥53B FY2007
LABs + AIP
Mar 2008
Nov 2010
Mar
2012
KHI
20SS
8120
Zuiryū
SS-505
¥51B FY2008
LABs + AIP
Mar 2009
Oct 2011
Mar
2013
MHI
No 21SS
No 21SS built
22SS
8121
Kokuryū
SS-506
¥52.8B FY2010
LABs + AIP
Jan 2011
Oct 2013
Mar
2015
KHI
23SS
8122
Jinryu
SS-507
¥54.6B FY2011
LABs + AIP
Feb 2012
Oct 2014
7 Mar 2016
MHI
24SS
8123
Sekiryū
SS-508
¥54.7B FY2012
LABs + AIP
KHI
25SS
8124
SS-509
¥53.1B FY2013
LABs + AIP
22 Oct 2013
12 Oct   2016
Mar? 2018
MHI
26SS
8125
Shoryu
SS-510
LABs + AIP
2014
6 Nov 2017
Mar 2019?
KHI
27SS First
Soryu Mk 2
8126
SS-511
LIBs only
2015
2018?
Mar
2020
MHI
28SS  Second
Soryu Mark 2
8127
SS-512
¥63.6B FY2016
LIBs only
2016?
2018?
Mar 2021?
KHI
29SS First Soryu Mk 3
(1) (3)
8128
?
¥76B FY2017
LIBs only
?
?
2023?
MHI?
30SS Second Soryu Mk 3 (2)
8029?
?
¥71.5B FY2018
LIBs only
?
?
2024?
KHI?
Table from information exclusively provided to Submarine MattersLABs = lead-acid batteries, AIP = air independent propulsion, LIBs = lithium-ion batteries. ¥***B = Billion Yen. MHI = Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, KHI Kawasaki Shipbuilding Corporation of Kawasaki Heavy Industries.
---

Anonymous and Pete

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Performance of 12V25/31S is reviewed.

The rated output (kW) of AC generator is specified as ---,800,1000, 1200, 1500, 1800, 2000, 2500, ---, and the rated speed of AC generator driven by diesel engine is specified as 900rpm, 1200rpm or 1800rpm.

As data of V8V22/30mAL, V8V24/30mMAL, V8V24/30AMT, 12V25/25S and 12V25/25SB in Table A consist with the above-mentioned specification (see "Electrical output" and "Speed" in Table A), performance of 12V25/31S is estimated to be ca. 2500kW/1200rpm for electrical output (ca. 3100kW/1200rpm for mechanical output).

Regards

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

V8V22/30mAL, V8V24/30mMAL and V8V24/30AMT are V16 diesels, not V8 diesels.

Regards

Peter Coates said...

Thanks Anonymous

So I'll keep them as V8V22/30mAL, V8V24/30mMAL and V8V24/30AMT and the number of cylinders as 16.

Regards

Pete

Peter Coates said...

Thanks Anonymous [at 1/2/18 4:55 PM]

I have changed the performance figures for 12V25/31S accordingly.

Regards

Pete

Anonymous said...

Dear Pete,
I still doubt that Kawasaki is developing 4-stroke Diesel engines:
https://global.kawasaki.com/en/mobility/marine/machinery/4cycle.html
2-stroke Diesel engines are not in use on submarines.

Kawasaki may build the submarine specific add ons.

Regards,
MHalblaub

Peter Coates said...

Hi MHalblaub

The doubts you raise may well be valid.

Due to the "opaque" (murky and secret) nature of submarine diesel development there is much, we, the public, cannot know.

I wonder if Kawasaki and MAN are still sharing submarine diesel development?

It may go down to a matter of degrees. Maybe in Europe MAN is doing 20% of submarine diesel development - then sending the results to Kawasaki - with Kawasaki then doing the main share of development (80%)

Regards

Pete

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Relationship between KHI and MAN Diesel & Turbo is maintained quite well.

http://www.khi.co.jp/machinery/news/detail/111024.html

(100th anniversary of technology cooperation on diesel engines with MAN Diesel & Turbo)

KHI commemorates the 100th anniversary this year since it entered into a technical cooperation with Germany 's M.A.N. company (currently, MAN Diesel & Turbo) in 1911 for diesel engines. This is the longest history relationship among companies currently licensed with MAN Diesel & Turbo.

In 1911, when the first contract was signed, the steam engine was still in use for the propultion of merchant ships, and the diesel engine was not used. Our first president Kojiro Matsukata signed a technical agreement with M.A.N. for a submarine use. Though the relationship was temporarily interrupted by the two world wars, we have revived the relationship each time and have reached today.

At the beginning of the contract, we intended the diesel engine for a submarine use, and extended the use to main propultion engines for merchant ships, auxiliary power generation agencies, onshore power generation agencies, power engines for diesel locomotives, etc.

Since 1980, we also manufacture turbochargers under the license of MAN. We line up verious products of MAN Diesel & Turbo including 2cycle diesel engine, 4 cycle diesel engine and turbo charger.

KHI will continue to manufacture reliable, highly efficient and environmentally friendly diesel engines and turbochargers under a strong relationship with MAN Diesel & Turbo.

Regards

Anonymous said...

Fairbanks Morse are 2 stroke diesel that are used in SSN and SSBN.
KQN

Peter Coates said...

Hi KQN

Yes "Fairbanks Morse are 2 stroke diesel that are used in SSN and SSBN." is certainly in accord with

SubMatt's "US Nuke Sub Backup Diesels - Possible Technology Path for Aus Future Subs" of January 7, 2018
http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2017/06/australia-should-avoid-another-orphan.html : which indicates:

"An Australian future submarine diesel option that deserves investigation is the Fairbanks-Morse 38ND 8-1/8 diesel being used for backup on USN Ohio, Seawolf and Los Angeles class nuclear subs. See the bottom of http://www.fairbanksmorse.com/marine/ ."

Cheers

Pete

Peter Coates said...

Hi Anonymous [at 2/2/18 5:40 PM]

Thanks for providing http://www.khi.co.jp/machinery/news/detail/111024.html (100th anniversary of technology cooperation on diesel engines with MAN Diesel & Turbo)

I have republished it further translated at "Revised Table of KHI-MAN Diesels for Japanese Submarines" February 5, 2018 at
http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2018/02/revised-table-of-khi-man-diesels-for.html

Regards

Pete

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous,

the Fairbanks Morse engine is an opposed piston engine and not a normal 2-stroke Diesel engine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairbanks_Morse_38_8-1/8_diesel_engine

As a back up engine for a nuclear powered submarine fuel efficiency is not that important.

I doubt that these engines could comply with EPA rules:
https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/marine.php

Regards,
MHalblaub