Australia's Future Submarine - Swedish vs German Claims

This article, Saab Story: Sweden's New Submarines, June 10, 2014, http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/saab-story-swedens-new-submarines-024760/ appears to have been inserted by Saab and maybe the Swedish Government to understandably increase the chances that Australia's future submarine will be designed and partly built in Sweden. Japan's Soryu propulsion system is of course being considered by Australia and US input, or at least Lockheed Martin's, has for years been considered for the combat system. All may be even more complicated and multi-country than the Collins' deals 1980s-2000s. 

The article however seems to avoid the issue that if TKMS still owns Kockums (as indicated here http://www.kockums.se/en/ ) then TKMS through Kockums retains many intellectual property rights that Sweden-Saab assumes are Sweden's rights. Intellectual property like the Stirling engine may be used in Australia's future submarine. But who owns the the intellectual property rights to the Soryu's Stirling engine and separately does Germany mostly own the licensing rights to the Soryu's diesel? Sweden-Saab? Germany-TKMS-Kockums as it applies to Japan? Where do Japan's submarine builders, Mitsubishi and Kawasaki, stand?  It all needs to be clarified by German, Swedish, Japanese and Australian lawyers, businessmen and politicians. See also "The reported Swedish solution would buy [Australia's] ASC" below.

Here are the relevant parts of the article which is on the Defense Industry Daily website http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/saab-story-swedens-new-submarines-024760/ :

Saab Story: Sweden’s New Submarines

Jun 10, 2014 18:46 UTC by Defense Industry Daily staff

.... In order to field their next-generation design, however, Sweden may have to do something unusual: partner with other countries…

....The A26 will be equipped with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) supplement to its diesel-electric systems,...

...The A26′s AIP system will be Kockums’ Stirling, which also equips Sweden’s 3 Gotland and 2 Sodermanland Class submarines, Singapore’s Archer Class Sodermanlund variant, and Japan’s Soryu Class.

...April 14, [2014] Saab to buy Kockums. Saab AB and ThyssenKrupp Industrial Solutions AG sign a non-binding Memorandum of Understanding concerning the sale of the Swedish shipyard ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems AB (formerly named Kockums), including its Malmo, Karlskrona, and Musko operations, to Saab AB.

“Both parties agree that during the negotiations phase, the integrity and the operating ability of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems AB must be safeguarded. The transaction will be subject to regulatory approval. The negotiations between Saab AB and ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems AB are at an early stage and more information will follow.”

There’s a major backstory here. Sweden’s FMV effectively raided TKMS’ offices in Malmo “to take sensitive technological equipment,” but FMV says that since “…it was a transfer of defence material, belonging to FMV, all information regarding the transfer is classified as secret”. It’s generally believed that they came and took the A26 submarine’s plans, as well as a complete Stirling Air-Independent Propulsion system, which are technically owned by the Swedish state. [does Germany-TKMS agree it is legally owned by Sweden?].  A country that believes time is of the essence, and doesn’t want what it perceives as a hostile corporation to have leverage from holding state materials, might be inclined to move swiftly. The very fact that this happened speaks to how badly relations between Sweden and TKMS have deteriorated. 

April 12, [2014]: Australia. The Collins Class was built around a Swedish design, and News Corp Australia says that Saab and the Swedish Government have been engaged in secret talks around a new joint submarine effort. That proposed approach may have the potential to cut through many of the dilemmas faced by Australia’s government, and Sweden’s as well....

The reported Swedish solution would buy [Australia's] ASC, and embark on a fully cooperative joint design for Sweden and Australia’s next submarines. Australia would receive a design that’s explicitly built for Australia’s needs – a necessary compromise for Sweden, whose needs are different. It’s also worth noting that the Japanese Soryu Class propulsion system which is attracting so much interest from Australia’s Navy is part Swedish. From industry’s point of view, making ASC part of Saab removes any conflict of interests with a foreign firm that acts as the project lead, creating both development jobs/skills, and production work. From the politicians’ point of view, a program that includes Sweden and Australia offers the added security of shared risk, and shared acquisitions.

Sweden is looking to re-establish an independent submarine industry (q.v. March 26/14), and their challenge will be buying enough talent, building an equivalent production workforce, and designing the new sub within Sweden’s budgets. Australia offers Sweden a development partner, and a workforce with good experience...."

PETE'S COMMENT

This whole matter still seems a political and legal mess or challenge, at least. If TKMS looks like it would lose Australia's future tender to build Australia's future submarine then TKMS will construct legal intellectual property right obstructions to make it very difficult for Saab to smoothly win the tender.

Pete 

Increasing Australian Interest in Japan's Soryu Submarine

Soryu class submarine being launched. Above submarine is the SS-502, the Unryu or Cloud Dragon.
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A boppy commissioning(?) of Soryu SS-505, the Zuiryu or Auspicious Dragon. The video conveys some idea of the size of this submarine.

For the latest complication on the Soryu see June 11, 2014’s Australia's Future Submarine - Swedish vs German Claims http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/australias-future-submarine-swedish-vs.html . Note that the Soryu propulsion may have a mainly German licensed diesel and mainly Swedish licensed Stirling AIP.

The following article from Reuters via The Maritime Executive of May 28, 2014 http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/Submarine-Deal-Could-Rattle-China-2014-05-28/ is in line with my own article Australian interest in Japan Soryu Submarine's Propulsion System [January 30, 2014 posted on Australia by the Indian Ocean] when I wrote:

“If Australia were to consider buying some features of Japanese submarines - such as the Soryu's propulsion system - Australia would need to be confident Japan could make this politically and economically possible [including Japan's ability to integrate the propulsion system with submarine hulls and electronic suites designed by Australian, European and US submarine arms companies]. To date Japan has never exported a major weapons system … Japan's self-imposed ban on arms exports began in 1967.” 

In the Comments section below Harish commented: "Let us say Japan did sell the Soryu drive-train or the entire package of the Soryu to Australia wouldn't that be breaking Kockums technology deal with Kawasaki Heavy Industries as they are the original source. I believe Kawasaki merely license produces these engines, is there something missing in that deal."

My comment is: I think Harish is correct that part of Soryu's drive-train (that is the Stirling engine AIP) is under license from Kockums. The Soryu uses two Kawasaki diesel generators, designed in conjunction with MAN [or is that MTU?], charging batteries that power a 5.9 MW Fuji Electrics main motor driving a seven bladed propeller. This licencing matter might not be an issue if TKMS-HDW legally owns Kockums. This is because I believe TKMS-HDW has the strongest chance of winning an Australian tender to build the future submarine. The result may be a development of the HDW 218SG - also stemming from the paper HDW 216 design. 

However the Swedish Government might still legally dispute a Stirling engine technology sale by claiming that these are Swedish inventions. The German Government might need to agree to Japan onselling the diesel technology to Australia.

The Maritime Executive article:

"Submarine Deal Could Rattle China"

BY MAREX May 28, 2014

"Japan is considering selling submarine technology to Australia - perhaps even a fleet of fully engineered, stealthy vessels, according to Japanese officials. Sources on both sides say the discussions so far have encouraged a willingness to speed up talks.

Any agreement would take months to negotiate and remains far from certain, but even a deal for Japan to supply technology would likely run to billions of dollars and represent a major portion of Australia's overall $37 billion submarine programme.

It would also be bound to turn heads in China.

Experts say a Japan-Australia deal would send a signal to Asia's emerging superpower of Japan's willingness, under nationalist Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, to export arms to a region wary of China's growing naval strength, especially its pursuit of territorial claims in the East and South China seas.

A deal would also help connect Japanese arms-makers like Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries to the world market for big, sophisticated weaponry, a goal Abe sees as consistent with Japanese security.

Abe has eased decades-old restrictions on Japan's military exports and is looking to give its military a freer hand in conflicts by changing the interpretation of a pacifist constitution that dates back to Japan's defeat in World War Two.

"There's a clear danger that aligning ourselves closely with Japan on a technology as sensitive as submarine technology would be read in China as a significant tightening in what they fear is a drift towards a Japan-Australia alliance," said Hugh White, a professor of strategic studies at the Australian National University. "It would be a gamble by Australia on where Japan is going to be 30 years from now."

Australia's proposed fleet of submarines is at the core of its long-term defence strategy. Although Canberra will not begin replacing its Collins-class vessels until the 2030s, the design work could take a decade or more and each submarine could take about five years to build, according to industry analysts.

A final decision on the type and number of submarines Australia will build is expected to be made after a review due in March 2015.

Australian officials have expressed an interest in the silent-running diesel-electric propulsion systems used in Japan's Soryu diesel submarines, built by Mitsubishi Heavy and Kawasaki Heavy. Those vessels would give Australia a naval force that could reach deep into the Indian Ocean.

More recently, Japanese military officials and lawmakers with an interest in defence policy have signalled a willingness to consider supplying a full version of the highly regarded Soryu to Australia if certain conditions can be met. These would include concluding a framework agreement on security policy with Canberra that would lock future Australian governments into an alliance with Japan, the officials said.

Mitsubishi Heavy had no comment. Kawasaki Heavy said it had not been approached about any proposal regarding the Soryu and could not comment.

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott has said he favors boosting strategic cooperation with Japan. For their part, Australia's military planners are similarly enthusiastic about cooperation as a means of hedging against an over-reliance on the United States, people with knowledge of their thinking said.

ULTRA-QUIET

The Soryu's ultra-quiet drivetrain could avoid a problem that makes Australia's six current submarines prone to detection, said sources with knowledge of the discussions in Australia.

The Australian government has committed to building the A$40 billion ($37 billion) replacement for its Collins-class submarines at home. However, a government-commissioned report from U.S.-based think-tank Rand Corp found that Australia lacked enough engineers to design and build a vessel it said would be as complex as a space shuttle.

"The likely practical approach is that Australia would partner with a foreign partner company and government," the report published last year said.

Australian Defence Minister David Johnston met his Japanese counterpart, Itsunori Onodera, in Perth recently and the pair meet again in June in Tokyo along with foreign ministers. Abe will follow up with a trip to Australia in July, one of the sources in Tokyo said.

Johnston said this month he believed the Soryu was the best conventional submarine in the world. He has also said he expects Japan and Australia will work together on research in marine hydrodynamics as an initial area of cooperation while working toward a "framework agreement" on military technology.

It is possible that Australia could purchase submarine hulls from Germany or Sweden and then opt to buy Japanese drivetrains for the vessels, although that would add a layer of complexity and additional cost, officials said.

Participants in a joint-development deal could also include Britain's BAE Systems and state-owned Australian Submarine Corp, which maintains the nation's current fleet.

Australian Submarine Corp's head of strategy and communications, Sean Costello, said the ship-builder had hosted Japanese government officials at its shipyards in March 2013 but no technical discussions had yet taken place.

BAE spokesman Mark Ritson said the British firm was keen to play a major role in Australia's submarine programme and was in regular contact with the Australian government.

In Japan, any submarine supply deal could face roadblocks.

Some senior officials in Japan's maritime self-defence forces are wary of any joint development that could risk a leak of sensitive information about the identifying "signature" of Japanese submarines, one official in Tokyo said.

However, exports would enable Japanese arms-makers to spread their costs over a bigger production base, making them more efficient. At the same time, Abe has pressed for a loosening of legal limits on Japan's military, including an end to a ban on helping allies under attack - though opinion polls show the Japanese public is divided on Abe's security policies.

The Soryu submarines have a range of more than 11,000 km (6,800 miles) and come armed with Harpoon missiles designed to hit enemy ships operating over the horizon. The export or transfer of such lethal technology would be a first in Japan and could face political opposition.

"It's impossible for us to move quickly on this. It has to be a gradual cooperation," one Japanese official with knowledge of the discussions said. (US$1 = 1.0815 Australian dollars). [from] Reuters 2014"

See an earlier Australia by the Indian Ocean article on this issue at Australian interest in Japan Soryu Submarine's Propulsion System dated January 30, 2014.

Pete