December 28, 2021

Second Hand Submarines No Solution for Australia

My thanks to Anonymous, who on December 24, 2021, raised the Japanese confidentiality problem (which would include Japan's special HY-156 pressure hull steel) of Japan selling its submarines. This is in the context of Bradley Perrett's December 23 suggestion that Australia could relatively quickly and simply buy second-hand Japanese Oyashio class submarines to resolve some of Australia's incredibly complex submarine problems. 

Bradley suggestion, while attractive to some, falls down for many reasons, including:

-  the Oyashio subs (commissioned 1998 - 2008) are as old as the Collins (commissioned 1998 - 2003)

-  Japan is undertaking mid-life upgrades to its newest 7 Oyashios so that they can remain effective operational subs for the Japanese Navy. They are being upgraded at great expense rather than simply depreciating with age. That being the case Japan will not part with its Oyashios.

- the Japanese military and political establishment lost face when the Australian purchase of Japanese subs, promised by Prime Minister (PM) Abbott in 2014, was ignored by PM  Turnbull, when Australia chose France in 2016. This means Japan is unlikely to risk being played by Australia again.   

- the suggestion that Australian owned Oyashios could be overhauled in Japan would be unacceptable for Australian strategic, logistical, union and other political reasons.

-  Japan's subs are too short range for Australia's environment. Japan's longest patrol distance is only from southern Japan to the the northern tip of the Philippines. While Japan does not publish the range of its Oyashios they actually have a range of 6,000nm thus rendering them useless for most Australian mission needs. 

-  Collins have and need twice the range at 11,500nm. This range is for the 6,000nm to transit to-from their operational areas north of Australia. Then at least 5,500nm to operate on station.

-  if Oyashios were used in Australian service they would need to be heavily and expensively modified to take the US-Australian electronics suites used on the Collins and which is to be  used on Australia's future nuclear subs. That includes the AN/BYG-1 combat system of sensors, databases, workstations and weapons (especially the Mark 48 torpedo).

-  Bradley's suggestion "The more submarines in service, even if they are diesel powered, the easier it will be to create crews" doesn't follow. Australia finding twice as many crews to operate not one but two types of conventional submarines while simultaneously training other Australian crews to operate the future nuclear subs would dilute limited defence resources.

A more viable solution remains the Collins' mid-life overhaul aka life of type extension (LOTE). The biggest limiter on submarine lives is metal fatigue of the pressure hull caused by the number of immersion cycles. Each time a submarine dives its pressure hull contracts and then it expands as it returns to the surface. The Collins' pressure hulls have spent more than their years would suggest out of the water due to long diesel overhaul periods. So they have a lot of life left in them. If the LOTE includes replacing the Collins main defect, the overhaul-intensive Hedemora diesels, with the world's most common submarine diesels (built by MTU) then the Collins could well operate efficiently out to 2040. Note that Australia recognised the value of MTU diesels in 2019

6 comments:

Nicky said...

Hi Pete,
What's your take on China gifting Myanmar the Type035B Ming class Submarine. Even though the submarine is an old design from the old soviet Romeo class Submarine. Do they still have any value in the submarine community today.

China transfers secondhand submarine to Myanmar
https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2021/12/30/china-transfers-secondhand-submarine-to-myanmar/

Pete said...

Hi Nicky

There are several geo-political implications which I'll describe in a post in the New Year.

Meanwhile, Happy New Year

Pete

Anonymous said...

Happy new year.

Japan MoD (Ministry of Defense) is going to develop cruise missile for submarine to prevent from invasion of remoted islands by fleet (invasion of Senkaku islands by Chinese Navy?). The cruise missile is based on Type 12 Surface-to-Ship Missile to be deployed in the late 2020th [1-3].

[1] https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/20211229-OYT1T50258/
“A missile with a range of 1000 km on a JMSDF submarine ... Considered by embodying the ability to attack enemy bases”

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_12_Surface-to-Ship_Missile

[3] https://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/hyouka/seisaku/2020/pdf/jizen_08_honbun.pdf

Improvement Plan for Type12 Surface-to-ShipMissile by Acquisition, Technology & Logistics Agency (ALTA)

Total budget is 342 million usd.

Trial production is conducted from 2021 to 2025.

Technical and practical tests are conducted from 2023 to 2025.

Regards

Pete said...

Thanks Anonymous [at Dec 31, 2021, 7:58:00 PM]

I'll turn your comment into an article soon.

It is very interesting that [1] https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/politics/20211229-OYT1T50258/ includes:

"When mounted on a submarine, a method of adding a vertical launch system (VLS) to the submarine and a method of launching from an existing torpedo launcher are being studied"

It could be the Japanese Navy is considing VLS like US and South Korean navy submarines.

Regards

Pete

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Target to be achieved in improvement plan for Type12 Surface-to-Ship Missile is as follows [1]

(a)Extension of range will be conducted by i) adoption of extension structure with large wings, ii) adoption of edge management considering reduction of RCS (Rader Cross Section), and iii) extension of operating range of a jet engine.

(b)Establishment of technology of UTDC (Up To Date Command) between grand system-missile via satellite.

(c)Establishment of firing function planning, estimation of firing effect and, confirmation of result.

Image of improved Type12 Surface-to-Ship Missile and its jet engine are in figs. 3&4 in [2]. Equipped with a new turbo fan jet engine. Equipped with large main wings for long-distance flight more than 1 hour. Adopted with stealth shape to reduce the RCS / radar reflection area". Equipped with a "tactical data link system that can update the route with.


[1] https://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/hyouka/seisaku/2020/pdf/jizen_08_honbun.pdf
Page 2/5, (4)

[2] http://tokyoexpress.info/2021/01/10/12%E5%BC%8F%E5%9C%B0%E5%AF%BE%E8%89%A6%E8%AA%98%E5%B0%8E%E5%BC%BE%E6%94%B9%E3%81%AE%E5%BE%8C%E7%B6%99%E3%80%81%E9%95%B7%E5%B0%84%E7%A8%8B%E3%81%AE%E3%80%8C12%E5%BC%8F%E5%9C%B0%E5%AF%BE%E8%89%A6/
Fig 3 Image of improved Type12 Surface-to-Ship Missile
Fig 4 Engine of improved Type12 Surface-to-Ship Missile

Regards

Pete said...

Happy New Year Anonymous

Thanks for your comments of Dec 31, 2021, 7:58:00 PM and Jan 2, 2022, 10:12:00 PM.

I'll turn them into an article tomorrow.

The Type 12 seems to be following an ever longer range, stealthier evolution similar to the Harpoon towards the JASSM-XR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158_JASSM

Regards

Pete