Argentina's La Nacion news, January 26, 2020, reports Argentina may buy one of Norway's old Type 210 "Ula" class submarines - effectively replacing the tragically sunk ARA San Juan.
The specific article is https://www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/el-gobierno-negocia-con-noruega-la-compra-de-un-submarino-nid2327486 which (when right-click mouse translated) indicates:
"Although they did not [provide] abundant details, the [Argentine] Government began efforts to negotiate the possible purchase of a submarine with the naval authorities of Norway."
"It [terminated previous discussions that Argentina] had initiated with the president of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro, for the cession of [4 old Type 209, Brazillian submarines] in an agreement destined to guarantee the joint patrolling in the South Atlantic...
...Since the tragedy of the ARA San Juan, Argentina has run out of operational submarines...."
PETE COMMENT
As Norways is buying 4 Type 212CD submarines from Germany a total of 5 more "Ula" submarines may eventually become available - perhaps for purchase by Argentina or another country (maybe Poland?).
Two Type 210 "Ula" class submarines docked at Norway's pretty Harkonsvern naval base, within the Bergen area. (Photo courtesy Petr Šmerkl, Wikipedia)
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5 comments:
I have had that pic of those Ula's more than once.
I do wonder what value these smaller poorer states get out of operating elderly submarines. Are they that much of an advantage over "something else" for the navy or air force?
Hi Steve
Good questions.
Argentina and Norway are on the IMF Nominal GDP scale are wealthier than than such medium sized submarine force owners as Israel, Egypt, Pakistan and Vietnam. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
Yes poorer states can often afford old/cheaper or gifted/free submarines that are provided to them by richer countries as a form of strategic and economic control, eg. that Indian submarine for Myanmar, and Chinese subs for Thailand, Bangladesh and Pakistan.
Uses for submarines include strategic conventional deterrence and natioanal/naval prestige.
Submarins in peacetime may have greater value for intelligence collection, keeping tabs on:
- potential enemy submarines/ships
- non state actors like pirates, terrorists, private armies and arms smuggles.
- submarines can intercept some types of emissions (eg. from some Asian
countries) better than other interception platforms.
In the waters of the Caribbean/Central America submarines of Canada, Columbia and the Netherlands are involved in tracking signals of drug smugglers (who use drug-subs, boats and aircraft) to channel drugs to the US. The US provides aid or other quid pro quo benefits to submarine countries who keep an eye on wouldbe drug smugglers to the US.
Sale of discount/old or 2 subs to small countries also provide opportunities for bribes/commissions to politicians and officials of relatively "poor" countries. eg:
- Malaysia who only bought an illogical 2 subs, https://www.asiasentinel.com/p/deep-and-dirty-malaysias-submarine-scandal and
- even Israel buying post-holocaust-discounted subs from Germany - see https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/05/world/middleeast/israel-netanyahu.html
Regards
Pete
P.S.
Re "post-holocaust-discounted subs from Germany" I don't mean that flippantly or offensively.
As The Times of Israel reports, December 17, 2015, https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-newest-sub-leaves-germany-bound-for-haifa/
"The price tag, seen by some as exorbitant, of the [German built submarine] Rahav [for the Israeli Navy] was offset by a considerable discount from Berlin that is rooted in a contentious 1953 reparations agreement between Germany and Israel for the Holocaust."
"The controversial agreement, which significantly boosted Israel’s economy during the early days of its independence, has brought billions of dollars of military and economic aid to Israel throughout its history and was further invoked to purchase the new line of naval vessels."
There have been 33% discounts on other German subs for Israel.
Pete
Hello,
Yes I have some knowledge of the uses of submarines in peace time.
There is a difference though in countries like Australia, Nerhlands, and Canadas operating a small number of modernish submarines and the likes of Argentina operating an even smaller number of a modernish design. Especially given the latter's record over the last 40 years. Is it one lost to enemy action and one lost to accident. You would think the money would be better spent elsewhere!
And yes I know about Israel's discount submarines. :)
Yours,
Steve
PS: As I bash this out I can't remember hearing about any Canuck plans to replace the Upholders........
Hi Steve
Re your: "As I bash this out I can't remember hearing about any Canuck plans to replace the Upholders [Victoria class subs]."
Yes, it looks like the Canuckistani government has a "plan" to have no plan to replace the 4 Upholders/Victorias.
The Canadian Naval Review, 4 February 2019, reported https://www.navalreview.ca/2019/02/canadian-submarines/
"It seems that new submarines won’t be part of the future mix for the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN), at least in the foreseeable future. The government has quickly rejected a critical key Senate committee recommendation to at least take the first steps in replacing our aging Victoria-class submarines with a fleet of new, modern and improved Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) boats. In late 2017, the Senate Defence Committee recommended the Victoria-class submarines be replaced with submarines capable of under-ice capabilities (Reinvesting In The Canadian Armed Forces: A Plan For The Future-April 2017-Pg. 24 Recommendation-1). The committee recommended that the federal government respond to NATO calls to improve the quality of the naval fleets and underwater surveillance capabilities by starting the process of replacing the Victoria-class submarines with new boats that have a more enhanced under-ice capability. It also recommended increasing the size of that fleet to 12 submarines in order to reinforce Canada’s Arctic, North Atlantic and Pacific Ocean defence preparedness."
[significantly]
"...The government is also committed to modernizing the four submarines to include weapons and sensor upgrades that will enhance their ability to conduct intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR), and deliver necessary improvements of platform and combat systems to extend operational capability to the mid-2030s...."
Cheers
Pete
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