January 24, 2023

Suggested VLS for UK SSN(R)s on Aug 2, 2022


See expanded image, by H I Sutton, here. H I Sutton wrote an interesting January 19, 2023 article on Naval News (with image above) in which H I, in part, writes: "Naval News understands that the SSNR [aka SSN(R)] will, unlike any previous Royal Navy attack submarine, have a vertical launch system (VLS)." and many other accurate judgements on the value of a VLS.
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Just to note, earlier, on August 2, 2022, I wrote:

"Donor Report: UK and Australian Future SSNs Will Need VPMs

Future Australian and UK SSNs (aka SSN(R)) will need at least two vertical firing Virginia Payload Modules (VPMs). This is because the hypersonic missiles being developed will be of larger diameter and likely longer/taller than the UK RN's 533mm torpedo tube fired 520mm Tomahawks. VPMs will very likely be in US Virginia Block Vs and maybe VIs and VIIs.

Instead the most likely hypersonic missile the USN is likely to adopt and adapt is the US Army's Long-Range Hypersonic Weapon (LRHW) reportedly 880mm diameter (right sidebar) with a range around 1,725 miles at Mach 5+. The USN intends to procure a ship/submarine-launched variant of the missile as part of the USN's Intermediate-Range Conventional Prompt Strike (IRCPS) program.

Peer-enemies are increasingly capable of firing supersonic or hypersonic anti-submarine, anti-ship and land attack missiles over distances greater than a subsonic Tomahawk's. This is a technology driver for hypersonic missiles in the future US, UK and eventually Australian SSN corps.

The RN is likely to adopt the hypersonic missile the USN adopts out of interoperability, commonality, lower development and unit cost considerations. This is in the tradition of the RN adopting US Harpoon, Tomahawk, Polaris and Trident II missiles. 

Instead of 7 x Tomahawks in a VPM only 3 x 880mm Hypersonic Missiles might fit. There is also a possibility that in the more distant future a longer/taller hypersonic missiles, range 3,000+ miles, might need to fit into VPMs.

The UK Astute's current 6 x 533mm torpedo tube arrangement could possibly be upgraded to 650mm tubes (like US Seawolfs) but horizontal tubes of 880+mm with increasing lengths would be out the question.

There would not be a larger horizontal tube retrofitting option for the RN either, as this would mean weakening the hull (with major cutting and widening of holes) and major torpedo room rearrangements, including substantial lengthening.   

VPMs also allow faster dedicated ripple firing in the face of increasing rapid detection by the enemy who may fire new generation torpedo carrying ASROC missiles in response. 

Also perhaps 2 of a UK SSN's 6 torpedo tubes may need to carry torpedoes leaving just 4 tubes for missiles, with the need for follow-on reloading.

VPMs can also be adapted to handle Diver/Special Forces stores, rapid diver access, diver delivery vehicles and also large UUVs better than horizontal arrangements. Whether buying US Virginia Block Vs or UK SSN(R)s Australian SSN selectors would do well to include VPMs."

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On January 7, 2023 I wrote "US Nuclear Weapon Sharing Under AUKUS? Addition." at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2023/01/us-nuclear-weapon-sharing-under-aukus.html

which included:

"Regarding SSN platforms 4 or perhaps 12 (3 per Virginia Payload Tube (VPT)) vertically launched hypersonic missiles, called Long-Range Hypersonic Weapons (LRHWs), could be carried on each SSN. LRHWs, with a range of 3,000km, may be deployed by the US Army as early as 2023 and on USN Virginia SSNs by the late 2020s. UK SSN(R)s, maybe available in the 2040s, might also be armed with 4 VPTs (hence 12 hypersonic missiles)."

11 comments:

Gessler said...

(Unrelated)

India's DRDO and France's Naval Group have officially signed the deal for the program to incorporate MAREEM PAFC AIP module onto the Kalvari (Scorpene)-class SSKs.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/01/indias-drdo-and-naval-group-to-upgrade-submarines-with-aip/

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete,

Maybe of interest

Submarine Delivery Agency
Annual Report and Accounts
2021-22
For the period 1 April 2021 to
31 March 2022

/Kjell

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete,

It seems the ChatGPT isn't that good about submarines :)

https://youtu.be/H8DIwNfIijU

/Kjell

Anonymous said...

Pete
This SMH article on Marles’ comments on AUKUS subs is significant IMO.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/huge-moment-government-prepares-to-unveil-aukus-plan-20230124-p5ceyh.html

“ Marles suggested the final submarine model would involve significant input from both the UK and US, dismissing suggestions the UK could be a bit player in the AUKUS pact.”

This really only leaves one possible candidate for the RAN SSN, because UK is not involved in the US Virginia or SSNX programs. So Virginias and SSNX are out.

With UK closing Astute production this leaves the UK successor class, SSNR. The successor UK SSN class will have US technologies- a modified USN S9G reactor and US style VLS tubes. Hence it would match Marles’ comments.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/01/britains-new-attack-submarine-to-be-first-with-vertical-launch-system/

This won’t be cheap, but will be very capable and much cheaper than US options. I assume the reactor compartments will be built in UK, possibly with US built S9G reactors. If between UK and Australia there are 14 to 16 SSNRs built, rather than the 7 Astutes, there might also be some economies of scale.

Pete said...

Thanks /Kjell @Jan 24, 2023, 7:39:00 PM

For the UK Submarine Delivery Agency (SDA) 2021-2022 Annual Report at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1130461/submarine-delivery-agency-annual-report-and-account-21-22_doc_.pdf

which makes several references to the long term development of the "SSN(R)"

Regards Pete

Pete said...

Thanks Gessler @Jan 24, 2023, 5:37:00 PM

For https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/01/indias-drdo-and-naval-group-to-upgrade-submarines-with-aip/

Which indicates INS Kalvari (first of India's Scorpene variant) will eventually act as an at-sea test rig for DRDO's "MAREEM PAFC" AIP technology.

Regards Pete

Pete said...

Hi again /Kjell this time at Jan 25, 2023, 5:15:00 AM

As H I Sutton demonstrates at https://youtu.be/H8DIwNfIijU the highly technical and specialist knowledge necessary to discuss and judge submarines usually make ChatGPT answers incorrect.

Cheers Pete

Anonymous said...

Another addition to Australia's arsenal:

"In a statement, the Department confirmed to SMH that
it was speeding up the purchase of “smart sea mines.”
It stated the new technology would assist secure
marine routes and safeguard Australia’s borders.

The high-tech mines can discriminate between military
targets and other ships, distinguishing them from
indiscriminate land mines. A yet-to-be-confirmed
European supplier will supply high-tech naval mines
that can be remotely activated and deactivated."

See:

https://eurasiantimes.com/australia-inks-pact-with-european-arms-supplier/

Pete said...

Thanks /Kjell

I've moved your "SUB STANDARD Nuclear security alert after botched attempt to fix £88m Trident submarine with super glue" comment

to my Feb 1, 2023 post - at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2023/02/hms-vanguards-reactor-fixed-with-glue.html

Regards Pete

Pete said...

Thanks Anonymous @Jan 25, 2023, 8:18:00 AM

I've taken note of the points in your post and incorporated them, and much much more, in my post "Which AUKUS Country's SSN Design Will Win?"
of Feb 1, 2023
at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2023/02/which-aukus-countrys-ssn-design-will-win.html

Regards Pete

Pete said...

Thanks Anonymous @Jan 27, 2023, 7:34:00 AM

For locating https://eurasiantimes.com/australia-inks-pact-with-european-arms-supplier/

LDUUV laying smart sea mines have much potential, for friends and enemies.

Regards Pete