- 1 or 2 Indian firms. Though India has never
built a conventional submarine other than assembling
foreign designed
submarines. Even the strikingly Russian Delta
SSBN-like INS
Arihant owes much
to Russian
design assistance especially due to the need to integrate a basically
Russian designed
reactor into it.
- 1 or 2 Japanese firms (MHI and KHI). Though
Japan has not built an export submarine since the
Matchanu
class, for Thailand, in the 1930s. Japan also scrupulously protects its submarine design
secrets. Notoriously PRC intelligence penetrated Taiwan may not be a secure customer. Matthias
Halblaub has drawn my attention to this link that indicates even US companies are not secure
against Chinese intelligence hacking.
Halblaub has drawn my attention to this link that indicates even US companies are not secure
against Chinese intelligence hacking.
- 2 US firms. Though the US has not built
conventional submarines since the Barbel class of
the
1950s, and
- 2 unnamed European companies (perhaps from Sweden, France, Germany, Spain or the
Netherlands?)
As The Diplomat’s
(paysite’s) Franz-Stefan
Gady reminded on July 12, 2018 Taiwan allocated a paltry US$65.66 million to complete design work on its future submarines. Then Taiwan is over-optimistic in compressing milestones“to build a fleet of eight domestically
designed SSKs, each displacing around 1,500 tons, with the first boat entering
sea-trials by 2024 followed by its first operational deployment in 2026."
PETE COMMENTS
I argued in April 2018 "BACKGROUND-COMMENTS" that Taiwan is likely relying on updating existing teardrop designs (from Netherlands, Japanese or US companies) which all draw on the US’s sixty year old Barbel design. See Wiki:
"The Zwaardvis-class submarine of the Netherlands and [Taiwan's] Hai
Lung-class...(built and sold by the Netherlands) were developments
of the Barbel class design. The Japanese Uzushio class and its successors were also influenced by the Barbel class."
Taiwan would need fundamental updates to be competitive against China. Major upgrades needed include up to date quiet diesels, new electric motors and broader electrical fitout, new snorkel, new quieting technologies all over the sub, new sonars, photonic masts, computers and other electronics,
anechoic tiles, new pressure hull steel and the vast number of other new submarine innovations since the 1950s. The US$65.66 million Taiwan is
talking about wouldn’t even cover new sonar integration.
Perhaps Taiwan intends to rely financially and time-wise on a sympathetic US interpretation of America's Taiwan Relations Act (effective 1979). This ambiguously states that "the United States will make available to Taiwan such defense articles and defense services in such quantity as may be necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficient self-defense capabilities". Time and Trump's changeable nature will tell.
A PRC-Hong Kong South China Morning Post article of July 19, 2018 subsequently carried many of the arguments stated above.
Pete
6 comments:
@Pete:
Taiwan's submarine ambitions are a pipe dream. No one will supply them outright and the learning curve for creating an effective modern submarine is going to be too steep for them to overcome without massive investment and copious outside knowledge that few countries are willing to provide. It either cuts into their own sub sales/knowledge base, angers China, or else they simply fear that their sub secrets will simply fall into Chinese hands. The only way I see Taiwan getting submarines is if the Indians get their act together and produce their Scorpenes successfully. But I doubt they will ever have excess sub building capacity and they would always fear that the boats would just fall into PLAN hands at some future date or some Chinese nationalist will hand the plans over to the mainland.
Cheers,
Josh
Hi Pete,
If you want my opinion, I think Taiwan should simply build upgraded and updated Barbel class SSK's. All the US has to do is import the steel and Skill sets and let Taiwan build Barbel class SSK's under US watch.
According to:
http://www.hisutton.com/Taiwanese_midget_sub.html
Taiwan may be better off with a larger force of minisubs. Quote:
"More recently in 2014 the HARD ROC 2.0 report by the US Strategic and Budget
Assessment Center recommended that Taiwan instead concentrate on building a large
fleet of some 42 midget submarines. This 350 ton design is most likely in response to
this."
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3478897
This article suggests Japanese team's proposal may be Harushio-class.
Hi Pete
Taiwan formally started development of indigenous submarine with enough budget [1]. The Japanese experts retired from MHI and KHI may involve in the development [2, 3], and USA will sell parts to Taiwan [4].
[1] https://www.msn.com/zh-tw/news/national/%E6%BD%9B%E8%89%A6%E5%9C%8B%E9%80%A0%E6%AD%A3%E5%BC%8F%E5%95%9F%E5%8B%95-2019%E5%B9%B4%E5%9C%8B%E9%98%B2%E9%A0%90%E7%AE%97%E7%B7%A8%E5%88%97493%E5%84%84%E5%85%83%E5%BB%BA%E9%80%A0%E5%8E%9F%E5%9E%8B%E8%89%A6/ar-BBMGpdn (31/Aug/2018)
“The building of indigenous submarine formaly launched with 49.3 billion TWD (1.6 billion USD) of FY2019 budget for the building prototype submarine”
[2]
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2018/august-2018-navy-naval-defense-news/6450-experts-from-japan-to-assist-taiwan-with-submarine-project.html (22/Aug/2018)
“Experts from Japan to Assist Taiwan with Submarine Project”
[3] https://www.excite.co.jp/News/world_g/20180921/Reuters_newsml_KCN1LY0MF.html?_p=5
Taiwan Ministry of Defense said to Reuters “It was absolute speculation”, and Japan Ministry of Foreign Affair said “We did not have information on involvement of Japanese engineers.”
[4] https://www.timesnownews.com/international/article/us-approves-possible-sale-of-military-parts-to-taiwan/289585
“US approves possible sale of military parts to Taiwan”
According to officials, The US State Department is ready to sell a batch of military parts to Taiwan, the same day President Donald Trump's latest round of tariffs against Chinese imports took effect.
Regards
Hi Anonymous
Thanks for the information on Taiwan's submarine project.
I'll turn it into a article tomorrow.
Regards
Pete
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