On September 4, 2017 Anonymous provided new information here and here updating Submarine Matter's Amended Improvements & Higher Costs of Soryu Mark IIs Over Mark Is of August 21, 2017
TABLE - SORYU & Oyashio Program as at January 16, 2018
Reported in the Japanese language publication SHIPS OF
THE WORLD, October 2017 - the ex-commander of the submarine fleet Admiral
(retired) Masao Kobayashi (photo and bio details below from Submarine Matters' records) has revealed that 29SS is
an upgraded version of the Soryu, with improved LIBs, improved sonars and other performance improvements. So 29SS and 30SS can be considered Soryu Mark 3s.
SS
No.
|
Build No
Name
|
Pennant
No.
|
MoF
approved amount ¥
Billions FY |
LABs,
LIBs, AIP
|
Laid Down
|
Laun
-ched
|
Commi
ssioned |
Built
By
|
5SS Oyashio
|
8105
Oyashio
|
SS-590/
TS3608
|
¥52.2B FY1993
|
LABs only
|
Jan
1994
|
Oct 1996
|
Mar 1998
|
KHI
|
6SS-15SS
Oyashios
10 subs
|
8106
-8115
various
|
SS-591-600
|
¥52.2B per
sub
FY1994-FY2003
|
LABs only
|
15SS
Feb
2004
|
15SS
Nov
2006
|
15SS
Mar 2008
|
MHI
&
KHI
|
16SS
Soryu Mk 1
|
8116
Sōryū
|
SS-501
|
¥60B
FY2004
|
LABs + AIP
|
Mar 2005
|
Dec 2007
|
Mar
2009
|
MHI
|
17SS
|
8117
Unryū
|
SS-502
|
¥58.7B
FY2005
|
LABs + AIP
|
Mar 2006
|
Oct 2008
|
Mar
2010
|
KHI
|
18SS
|
8118
Hakuryū
|
SS-503
|
¥56.2
FY2006
|
LABs + AIP
|
Feb 2007
|
Oct 2009
|
Mar
2011
|
MHI
|
19SS
|
8119
Kenryū
|
SS-504
|
¥53B FY2007
|
LABs + AIP
|
Mar 2008
|
Nov 2010
|
Mar
2012
|
KHI
|
20SS
|
8120
Zuiryū
|
SS-505
|
¥51B
FY2008
|
LABs + AIP
|
Mar 2009
|
Oct 2011
|
Mar
2013
|
MHI
|
No 21SS
|
No 21SS
built
|
|||||||
22SS
|
8121
Kokuryū
|
SS-506
|
¥52.8B
FY2010
|
LABs + AIP
|
Jan 2011
|
Oct 2013
|
Mar
2015
|
KHI
|
23SS
|
8122
Jinryu
|
SS-507
|
¥54.6B
FY2011
|
LABs + AIP
|
Feb 2012
|
Oct 2014
|
7 Mar 2016
|
MHI
|
24SS
|
8123
Sekiryū
|
SS-508
|
¥54.7B
FY2012
|
LABs + AIP
|
KHI
|
|||
25SS
|
8124
|
SS-509
|
¥53.1B
FY2013
|
LABs + AIP
|
22 Oct
2013
|
12
Oct 2016
|
Mar? 2018
|
MHI
|
26SS
|
8125 Shyuriyu
|
SS-510
|
LABs + AIP
|
2014
|
6 Nov 2017
|
Mar 2019?
|
KHI
|
|
27SS First
Soryu Mk 2
|
8126
|
SS-511
|
LIBs only
|
2015
|
late
2018? |
Mar
2020
|
MHI
|
|
28SS Second
Soryu Mark
2
|
8127
|
SS-512
|
¥63.6B
FY2016
|
LIBs only
|
2016?
|
late 2019?
|
Mar 2021?
|
KHI
|
29SS First Soryu Mk 3
(1)
(3)
|
8128
|
?
|
¥76B FY2017
|
LIBs only
|
?
|
?
|
2023?
|
MHI?
|
30SS Second Soryu Mk 3 (2)
|
8029?
|
?
|
¥71.5B FY2018
|
LIBs only
|
?
|
?
|
2024?
|
KHI?
|
Table from information exclusively
provided to Submarine Matters. LABs = lead-acid
batteries, AIP = air independent propulsion, LIBs =
lithium-ion batteries. ¥***B = Billion Yen. MHI =
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, KHI = Kawasaki
Shipbuilding Corporation of Kawasaki Heavy Industries.
---
Japan’s Ministry of Defense (MOD) announced the Financial
Year FY 2018 budget on August 31, 2017. Based on the FY 2017 and FY 2018
budgets, the SORYU & Oyashio Program Table (above) can be revised (in red) as follows.
(1) Correction of 29SS; i)
“Build No” is 8128; “[the Japanese Ministry of Finance (MoF)] approved amount Yen Billions & FY” is JPY 76 (7.6*)B FY2017.
(2) Addition of 30SS; i)
“Build No” is 8029?; MoF approved amount Yen Billions & FY” is JPY 71.5
(2.3*)B FY2018 (submitted).
* Figure in bracket is the
first year cost, such as new equipment, and is excluded from the FY budget number.
In other words, the real budgets for
29SS and 30SS are 83.6 (=76 + 7.6) and 73.8 (=71.5 + 2.3) JPY B (Billion
Japanese Yen), respectively. The first year cost for both 29SS and 30SS recognises
that the builders of the two submarines are different.
According to the MOD, first year costs include i) design, ii) test, iii) technical collaboration, and iv) acquisition costs. These costs exclude jigs/tools, machines and equipment. These costs are related to the first year procurement and are specially required for production.
The first year cost of 29SS (ie. 7.6 B JPY) is much higher than 30SS (2.3 B JPY). One major cost component may be design. The design cost of 29SS is obviously higher than 30SS.
(3) For application in
future 29SS-type submarine, a budget for the study of a new silent driving
system has been submitted.
Research on the quiet propulsion (or silent driving?) system and hull shape are considered
budgeting. The results of previous research will be applied to 29SS-type
submarine. An issue remains whether 29SS type submarines can be called Soryu Mark
3 or Soryu Mark 4. A submarine class that follows the Soryus will likely be
based on additional research.
Vice Admiral Masao KOBAYASHI, JMSDF (Retired)
Masao KOBAYASHI has performed as an adviser to Japan's National Security Council. He graduated from the Japanese Defense Academy in 1973 and commenced a career in the JMSDF submarine service. He held many posts in the submarine force.
Shore billets included Submarine Branch Head in the Ship Systems Section in the Maritime Staff Office and Operations Officer in the Fleet Submarine Force.
He has commanded TAKASHIO SS-571 (Uzushio class submarine), and was Commander of Submarine Division Two. In 2001/2 he was the Commander of Submarine Flotilla One, and was Coordinator of Exercise at sea for Pacific Reach 2002.
Masao’s last post was as Commander of the Fleet Submarine Force (2007 - 2009). He retired from the JMSDF in 2009. Vice Admiral KOBAYASHI served with distinction in the JMSDF and is well regarded as an authority in the international submariner community.
Anonymous and Pete
7 comments:
Hi Pete
According to MoD, first year cost, which includes i) design cost, ii) test cost, iii) technical collaboration cost, and iv) acquisition cost of exclusive jigs/tools, machines and equipment, is related to the first year procurement and is specially required for production.
First year cost of 29SS (7.6 B JPY) is much higher than 30SS (2.3 B JPY). One of the reasons may be design cost. Design cost of 29SS is obviously higher than 30SS.
Reseachs on quiet propulsion system and hull shape are budgeting. Result of former research will be applied in 29SS-type submarine (Soryu MK III b or MK IV?). Post Soryu may be based on result latter research.
Regards
Thanks Anonymous
I'll place your words (at 7/9/17 12:05 AM) in the article text.
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
In MoD, first year cost and specication of purchasing product are two criterions for judging whether the product is new or not. In the case of new product, first year cost is usually incurred and new specification is needed. But it is not the case for 29SS where first year cost is incurred but specication is revised, suggesting that 29SS series belong to Soryu series, but are going to experience big modification.
On reseach on quiet propulsion system, low noise driving sytem and its control system is developed. Proto type system is manufactured from 2018 to 2021, and its evaluation is conduced in 2022 with total budget of 5.6 B JPY. As cost of current propulsion system is ca. 1B JPY, big improvement in performance is expect.
So, new quite driving and control system may be equipped in late 29SS series (Soryu Mark IV?).
Regards
The next China flat top is coming, 2019-2020, this time with CATOBAR. Drawings on the web show J-20 in hangar, if remotely true that is going to spell troubles for all tose F/A-18 and F-35. USN watch out.
KQN
Hi KQN
I see it more likely China would use the developed J-15* for the first few years of CATOBAR (Type 002**) carrier operations.
Using an immature J-20 with an immature 002 AND getting past the US F-35 lead may all wait till 2028 or later.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-15#Operational_history
** http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-next-aircraft-carrier-everything-we-know-so-far-19965
Regards
Pete
Kyle Mizokami, at The National Interest, has written a good description of the Soryu's characteristics including its limited range.
See it at http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/japan-just-might-have-the-worlds-best-non-nuclear-stealth-23085?page=show of 7 November 2017
Hi Pete [8/11/17 12:32 PM]
Kyle Mizokami’s article is interesting, but, I do not satisfy following paragraph.
“The Soryu class isn’t perfect, though: one major criticism of the boats during the Australian submarine competition was their relatively short operating range. At 6,100 nautical miles, the Soryu’s range wasn’t an issue for their original mission: protecting the home waters of Japan.”
JMSDF has huge data on patrol of its submarines, and grasps maximam range and adequate amout of fuel to be loaded. Based on these data, optimal design of submarine is conducted. For example, if submarine loads excess amount of fuel, it become bigger and more to-be-detected. Relatively short range of 6100 nm proves optimal design of Japanese submarine, and very long operation range may be failure of design, because concept of opimal design is not well understood. According to JMSDF, Soryu stays on the ocean floor for a week to surveillance. In such situation, bigger sonar is needed instead of huge amount of fuel.
Regards
S
Post a Comment