November 17, 2017

Chinese, NK & Russian Designed Submarine Propulsion

After much frustrating work I've decided to steer away from tabulating propulsion information on Western designed submarines. This is due to the vast amount of conflicting information, from numerous, already existing, written sources.

Seeming conflicting information is partly due to:

-  There frequently being more than one diesel generator in a given sub – with the customer
    frequently deciding on the total number of diesels and their total power.

-  Put another way, different customer countries use different diesel generator, motor and AIP power
   outputs.

-  There are cruising speed/power "red lines" (surfaced, snorting and fully submerged) which, 
    if exceeded, could cause overheating over certain periods or excessive wear and shorter lives
    of engine parts.

-  Maximum diesel generator power output may be twice or more of the minimum.

-  Diesels may be run far lower than capacity – to reduce noise.

-  Essential use of diesel in snorkeling mode will likely reduce power output by 20%.

-  Diesel generators and the electric motors have different power output due to reduction gear or
   PSMS particulars.


-  Battery and/or AIP use has variable impacts on motor power output.

Much more interesting and useful is focus on the small amount of information on Chinese, North Korean and Russian designed submarine propulsion mixtures.

Pete

7 comments:

Nicky K.D Chaleunphone said...

Hi Pete

Check out this video
China CSIC New Submarine Designs for Export + Thailand S26T SSK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-YTP88sBCw

Nicky K.D Chaleunphone said...

Hi Pete,
What's your take on this,

Argentine Navy loses contact with submarine carrying 44
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2017/11/17/argentine-navy-loses-contact-with-submarine-carrying-44/

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Lada and Amur equips with Kolomensky Zavod diesel generator [1, 2], V8 D49 (ChN26/26) with 1045kW. Considering power reduction at snorkeling, total output of 2 x V8 D49 (ChN26/26) seems to be 1.7-1,8MW.

[1] http://www.kolomnadiesel.com/eng/about/ (Kolomensky Zavod, Home Page)
Plant rated 24000 hp of the type corvette “Stereguschiy”, the latest multi-purpose ship of the Russian Navy. The main propulsion plants for diesel-electric submarines of the XXI century: “Lada” and “Amur” have been developed based on the diesel engines of Kolomensky Zavod.

[2] http://www.iusscaa.org/articles/brucerule/the_russians_are_resurrecting_the_lada_class_diesel_time_to_review_what_we_know_from_open_sources.htm (The Russians Are Resurrecting the LADA Class Diesel Time to Review What We Know From Open Sources)

The ST PETERSBURG design used two constant speed (1,000 rpm) D49 diesel engines (V8 design) operated as diesel-generators: a diesel-electric propulsion system. A candidate engine was the V8 configured ED-2, a D49 (ChN26/26) engine (bore of 260mm and a stroke of 260mm).


There is no information on NK submarine except recent successful hacking of full information of SK submarine by NK.


Regards

Peter Coates said...

Hi Nicky K.D Chaleunphone [at 18/11/17 9:41 AM]

Thanks for the heads up.

See my latest article at http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2017/11/argentinian-submarine-san-juan-likely.html

Regards

Pete

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Information on Chinese submarine is limited, but techonology transfer of diesels from MTU and MAN to China is expected to cause evolution of its diesel generator for submarine. MAN (SEMT Pielstick [1]) produces morden diesels [2] for submarine. 12PA 4V 200SMDS may be major candidate of diesels for Shortfin.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEMT_Pielstick
SEMT Pielstick is a French diesel engine manufacturer based in Villepinte, France and owned by MAN Diesel, a subsidiary of
MAN AG.

[2] http://marine.man.eu/docs/default-source/shopwaredocuments/pa4-sm-smdsfba3ca1740b144429518d4e002fd7d6f.pdf?sfvrsn=3
PA4 SM & SMDS Diesel engines for submarines

Caption of left picture (page 4) “Diesel generating set of 1,250 kWe with diesel engine type 12 PA4 V 200 SMDS” is not correct. 1050kWe (KWe, output of generator = 0.8 x output of diesel engine = 0.8 x 1300 kW) is correct value.

Regards

Peter Coates said...

Thanks Anonymous

Once the San Juan issue is clarified I'll publish a Propulsion Table.

Regards

Pete

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

MAN suggests PA4V 200s with 16 and 20 cylinder are possible, and their advantage and disadvantage are as follows.

12PA 4V 200SMDS
Advantages: established reliability and performance, cost reduction effect by mass production (as submarine), high availability of spare parts.
Disadvange: space demamding due to 4-6 generators

16 or 20 PA 4V 200
Advantages: less space demanding due to 4 generators
Disadvantage; uuproven reliability and performance, high price by small production, etc

As existing diesel generators are developed for LABs with low charge rate and capacity, their power is not enough for LIBs. In future LIB-submarine, more powerfull generator will be needed, suggesting third possibility of new generators.

Complement
http://marine.man.eu/docs/default-source/shopwaredocuments/pa4-sm-smdsfba3ca1740b144429518d4e002fd7d6f.pdf?sfvrsn=3
(Page 2, upper right picutue)
In contrast of automobile engine which has cast engine block, submarine diesel enigne has an unique crankcase as shown in this picture. Diameter of holes (we can see 6 holes in this picture) on top of the carckcase is ca. 260mm, and bore of cylinder is 200mm. An engine cylinder with 200mm of inner diameter and 260mm of outer diameter is set in a hole. In maintainance, these 12 cylinders can be dissembled and carried out from submarine through hatch. I think MTU and Kawasaki diesel adopt same architecture.

Regards