March 20, 2018

German-Russian DM-185 & German-UK MTU Submarine Diesels Supplied to China?

The DM-185 diesel is almost certainly being offered and modified for Chinese nuclear and conventional submarines. Perhaps not through Russia's UDMZ but though Germany's FEV.

Anonymous has kindly provided many of the following details on the DM-185 range.

GERMANY'S FEV SUPPLYING SUBMARINE DIESELS TO CHINA

The Research Association for Energy Technology and Internal Combustion Engines, in German "Forschungsgesellschaft für Energietechnik und Verbrennungsmotoren" (FEVGmbH) was founded in 1978.

The FEV "Company History" advises http://www.fev.com/en/who-we-are/company-history.html
FEV entered the Chinese market with the establishment of an office in Beijing, China in 1998...FEV established its Asian Technical Center in Dalian [notable for shipbuilding including Chinese Navy (PLA-N) shipyards] China, providing FEV with a diesel development facility to support its customers in Northeast Asia.
-  The risk German or broader Western submarine diesel secrets could leak to Russia and on to
    China is obvious.

A more direct route is MTU 396 and MTU 4000 marine/submarine diesels technology transfer occuring in the new Rolls-Royce/MTU/Yuchai factory in Yulin, China for Chinese Yuan submarine use
-  China might then pass on MTU details to Russia (assuming Western firms are not already
   passing MTU details to Russia?)

BACKGROUND

The new generation Russian-German designed multipurpose DM-185 diesel (with electrical output of 1515 kWe) is being tested for submarine. This is with a view to being the primary power plant for future conventional diesel-electric Russian and Chinese submarines. DM-185s might also replace the DM-21 backup diesels on Russian Yasen class multipurpose submarines and Borey/Borei SSBNs.

http://expert.ru/ural/2016/30/na-otechestvennom-hodu/ 2015/2016 at the Ural Diesel-Motor Plant (UDMZ)...opened a production complex of DM-185 diesel. The DM-185 was developed by a team of specialists from Bauman Moscow State Technical University, Ural Federal University, German engineering company FEV and the design bureau of the Ural Turbine Plant (UDMZ).

On March 17, 2018 Anonymous supplied extra information on the DM-185. In 2016 the Russian Ural Diesel Motor Factory LLC (UDMZ) and German headquartered FEVGmbH announced the launch of new generation DM-185 diesels in the 28th International Council on Combustion Engines (CIMAC) Congress, June 6 to 10, 2016 in Helsinki. This is the detailed paper announcing the DM-185  (http://jxpt.whut.edu.cn:81/meol/common/script/preview/download_preview.jsp?fileid=517881&resid=63750&lid=5030 (2.3MB PDF). According to this paper, the former DM-185 specification has been updated to version 2.


Two 4-2DL42M diesels are used for Kilo submarines Project 636.1  They are L6 type diesels with 300mm of bore and 360mm of stroke. Using PG-142 generators they generate 1000kW of electrical output at 700 rpm. For sources see Revised Table footnotes 3, 4, 5.

Two 7-2D42M diesels are used for Kilo submarines Project 636.3They are L6 type diesels with 300mm of bore and 360mm of stroke. Using PG-167 generators they generate 1500kW of electrical output at 750 rpm. For sources see Revised Table footnotes 3, 4, 5.

RUSSIA'S FLOTPROM (FP) ANNOUNCED ON JULY 2, 2015:

 https://flotprom.ru/2015/%D0%9C%D0%B2%D0%BC%D1%8153/ The new generation  diesel engine, DM-185, is being built at the Ural diesel-engine plant... DM-185s can be used for surface ships, in particular corvettes, and submarines. The engine is intended to replace another diesel engine - DM-21.


As the FlotProm correspondent was told...the engine consists of [50% Russian] components [and presumably 50% German components?] and has a Russian control system.

"The engine was created to solve the problems that arise with the DM-21 engine," the source said. According to the representative of the company, now the DM-21 is operated on the rescue vessel Zvezdochka and is installed on the Yasen and Borey submarines. 

He noted that in addition to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the potential customers of the engine are the BRICS countries. [including Russian, Indian and Chinese submarines]

"At the request of the customer, the engine can be equipped with various modifications, including it can be converted to gas," the company representative said.

The engine is high-speed, its resource is designed for 70000 operating hours without major repairs. In addition, it has a large cylinder capacity and was designed according to the newest technologies.

At the same time, the engine has disadvantages, according to the interviewee, by weight it is slightly heavier than the engines of the German company MTU.

Russia's UDMZ and Germany's FEV multipurpose (including submarine) DM-185 diesel engine. (Photo courtesy International Trading House WTH Souztrade at http://souztrade.ru/dizelnye-dvigateli-dm-185/)
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Anonymous and Pete

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Japan's major eonomy magazines suggest that export of diesels for Shortfin may be welcomed [1, 2]. PM Abe definitely supports its export. Adoption of DM-185 in Chinese non-nuclear submarine will close the gap between C- and J-submarines.


[1] http://diamond.jp/articles/-/90792?page=2 (10/May/2016, DIAMOND online)
“This failure (of submarine tender) is a big pain in Japan. However, there is a last chance. There is a way for Japanese manufacturers to participate in SAE as a supplier. Especially, diesel engine is most promissing technology. According to local reports, Naval group planning to equip with six engines. However, the Rear Admiral said two to four KHI high power engines would provide sufficient power. It is difficult for Japanese manufacturers who have no track record of exporting weapons to compete with European and American companies. First of all, Japan should accumulate experience of exports and local production of on-boad equipment.”

[2] http://business.nikkeibp.co.jp/atcl/report/15/110879/041100660/ (Nikkei Business On-line, 12/Apr/2017)
“Shipbuilding industry is experiencing sluggish orders due to excess of ship. While the profitability of the merchant ship division, which is the revenue source, is getting worse, the warship division for JMSDF destroyer and submarine, whose bad profitablity has conventionaly been tolerated because of the national security, also faces a tough situation. Now, the major shipbuilders who are involved in warship building are requesting for government-initiative exports to maintain the warship building basis.”

Regards

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

The third generation diesel submarines, Project 636 “Varshavianka" (NATO reporting name of Improved Kilo) are classified export version (636.1, 636M) and domestic version, the former is for Algeria, China, India and Vietnam and the latter is for Black Sea Fleet (Russia) and Pacific Fleet (Russia) [1].

Project 636.3 has a higher (in comparison with previous projects) combat effectiveness. The world priority of ships of this class in the field of non-nuclear submarine construction is provided by: an optimal combination of acoustic stealth and range of target detection; the newest inertial navigation complex; modern automated information and control system; powerful high-speed torpedo-missile armament [2].

Two 4-2DL42M and two 7-2D42M diesels are used for Projects 636.1 and 636.3, respectively. 4-2DL42M and 7-2D42M, which are L6 type diesels with 300mm of bore and 360mm of stroke, generate 1000kW and 1500kW of electrical outputs at 750rpm by combination of generators PG-142 and PG-167, respectively [3, 4, 5].


Comment:
Six Project 636.3s will be commissioned in Pacific Fleet of Russia [1, Table Проект 636.3 (Project 636.3)]. Which diesles, DM-185s or 7-2DM42s, are used? I do not think China and India buy 4-2DL42M any more.


[1] https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0_636_%C2%AB%D0%92%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%88%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0%C2%BB
Project 636 submarines "Varshavianka"

[2] http://kolomnadiesel.com/news/detail.php?ID=1079
New large diesel-electric submarines of project 636 "Varshavyanka" will be equipped with engines of Kolomensky plant
(Project 636.3 is cited in this article, not Projects 636.1 and 636M)

[3] Ibid
The main power units of the Project 636.3 are created on the basis of diesel generators 30DG (6ЧН30 / 38) with a capacity of 1500 kW produced by the Kolomna plant (part of ZAO Transmashholding).

[4] https://www.korabel.ru/equipment/item_view/345171.html
Diesel-gnereator 30DG (6ЧН30 / 38)

[5]
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0_877_%C2%AB%D0%9F%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%82%D1%83%D1%81%C2%BB#636
[In Project 877 submarine which is analogue of Project 636,] Two diesel engines of the 4-2DL42M type have a power of 1000 kW at a speed of 700 rpm, and work together with generators of the PG-142 type.

Regards

Anonymous said...

Before correction
Two 4-2DL42M and two 7-2D42M diesels are used for Projects 636.1 and 636.3, respectively. 4-2DL42M and 7-2D42M, which are L6 type diesels with 300mm of bore and 360mm of stroke, generate 1000kW and 1500kW of electrical outputs at 750rpm by combination of generators PG-142 and PG-167, respectively [3, 4, 5].

After correction (underline)
Two 4-2DL42M and two 7-2D42M diesels are used for Projects 636.1 and 636.3, respectively. 4-2DL42M and 7-2D42M, which are L6 type diesels with 300mm of bore and 360mm of stroke, generate 1000kW and 1500kW of electrical outputs at 700 rpm and 750rpm by combination of generators PG-142 and PG-167, respectively [3, 4, 5].

Peter Coates said...

Hi Anonymous [22/3/18 11:20 AM]

Thanks for the correction "Two 4-2DL42M and two 7-2D42M diesels are used for Projects 636.1 and 636.3, respectively. 4-2DL42M and 7-2D42M, which are L6 type diesels with 300mm of bore and 360mm of stroke, generate 1000kW and 1500kW of electrical outputs at 700 rpm and 750rpm by combination of generators PG-142 and PG-167, respectively [3, 4, 5]."

I have devided the data into two, sets below. This is for http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2018/03/german-russian-dm-185-submarine-diesel.html AND ALSO FOR http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2018/03/revised-table-comparing-russian-german.html .

see "DIESELS USED IN KILO SUBMARINES

Two 4-2DL42M diesels are used for Kilo submarines Project 636.1 They are L6 type diesels with 300mm of bore and 360mm of stroke. Using PG-142 generators they generate 1000kW of electrical output at 700 rpm. For sources see Revised Table footnotes 3, 4, 5.

Two 7-2D42M diesels are used for Kilo submarines Project 636.3, They are L6 type diesels with 300mm of bore and 360mm of stroke. Using PG-167 generators they generate 1500kW of electrical output at 750 rpm. For sources see Revised Table footnotes 3, 4, 5."

This KILO data may also be useful in a New Table that includes diesels for "Russian SSKs and Backup Diesels for Russian Nuclear Submarines".

Regards

Pete

Peter Coates said...

Hi Anonymous [thanks for the Kilo data at 22/3/18 11:16 AM and 22/3/18 11:20 AM]

I aim to publish it around April 3, 2018. That is, after next week.

Next week, March 26th to 30th, will be more about Australia-France submarine issues.

Regards

Pete