Moyura Baba, for Japan's Nikkei Asia, June 17, 2022, deftly reports in part:
"...NEW DELHI -- India is making overtures to Israel, the U.S. and Europe in an effort to reduce its dependence on Russian arms, as the war in Ukraine highlights the risk of relying too heavily a single partner.
The war has pushed Russia closer to China, which India considers its biggest threat as the countries remain embroiled in a border dispute. New Delhi is now exploring ways to possibly reduce its Russia-dependence.
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi urged Israeli defense companies to set up shop in India in a meeting with Israeli Defense Minister Benjamin Gantz this month. India and Israel have deepened cooperation on defense in recent years.
During Modi's tour of Europe last month, he and French President Emmanuel Macron agreed on more French involvement in India's campaign for greater self-reliance, including on "advanced defense technology."
In April, Modi and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson issued a statement outlining plans for the U.K. to provide technological assistance for India's new homegrown fighter jets.
Modi also met with U.S. President Joe Biden following the May summit of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, or Quad, which includes Japan and Australia. The leaders discussed a low-cost weapons package from the U.S. to India. Modi urged cooperation from U.S. defense companies on production in India.
"The most important lesson that India is learning from the Ukraine crisis is that overdependence on any one country is bad," said Harsh Pant, vice president of studies and foreign policy at the Observer Research Foundation in New Delhi.
"The defense cooperation with Israel and other countries will help India in reducing its dependence on Russia," Pant added...."
SEE THE WHOLE NIKKEI ASIA ARTICLE HERE
15 comments:
We have discussed this earlier. Briefly,
1. Russian dependence is well known, but the immediate move to get better weapons is the poor performance of supposedly top end weapons such as the R-77 BVRAAM and multiple naval weapons such as the CIWS system on Indian frigates, not to mention land based radars in crucial war theaters.
Russian help on cruise missile engines, SLBMs, SSNs etc might continue moving forward
2. UK, US, France: There is realism here to a large extent. No one expects BoJo and co to literally help India develop fighter jets by sharing sensitive tech such as the single crystal blade manufacturing tech nor is MBDA going to help India with BVRAAM tech knowhow.. No one lives in la la land on that count at North Block in Delhi. Off the shelf buys for the most part it will be... till India can make more important stuff internally.
3. Israel: Some realistic help has come through on long range radars such as the Swordfish, LR-MFR and missiles such as the Barak-8.
Ghalib
One possibility I am wondering about that may now be attractive to India with the Quad arrangement is what happens to Australia’s two squadrons (24) of Super Hornets? If Australia takes up options to get remaining F35s the FA18Fs will be surplus and have only 10 years use on well maintained airframes. Australia could not sell them for much, and any sale would require US agreement. I can’t really think of any other country in the region that would be more secure to give them to than India.
The Australian Super Hornets are the FA18F Block 3 so quite advanced compared to what India currently flies, and able to launch Harpoons. So while this is not a naval purchase, it does influence Indias naval air strike capability.
Note - I am only assuming this is possible if Australia takes up the balance of the F35 contract soon. The RAAF would not dispose of the F18s otherwise. However the Super Hornets were only bought as an interim measure when the F35s were late arriving. It seems a pity to waste planes that only went operational in 2012.
3. Israel: The ELM-2090U UHF digital radar(You know what that mean?), EL/M-2052 Elta HAL radar (Tejas 2, 88 grand. https://defenceupdate.in/how-tejas-) NAVY-radars (MF Star), UAVs, Soft Kill-Hard Kill Decoy System for NAVY, "Rampage"-missiles (http://idrw.org/india-to-order-rampage-long-range-precise-supersonic-missile-from-israel/) Negev 7,62 etc, etc...
"Image for representation onlyIndia is showing great interest in several Israeli systems to equip its upgraded submarine fleet".Regards...
Hi Oleg
Yes I know what you mean about the Elta radars.The 2090US and Spectra S have been in use in India since 2021 if i understand correctly.
Quickly,
1. India IL-76 AWACS have the EL/M-2090 radar
2. India's swordfish is an acknowledged Green Pine 2080 derivative
3. The 2032 pulse doppler was used first followed by the AESA 2052 in Tejas and upgraded Jaguars.
4. India's naval LR-MFR is a derived from the 2248 STAR radar (2221 radars serve on older ships)
On SSKs, I do hear rumours of Rafael systems helping India. How and when etc. I don't know..
This is besides the great help supplying Israeli made X-Band SAR radars on Indian military satellites.
As an Indian, Israel is one of the few countries I genuinely feel a sense of gratitude. Since 1999 (when they rushed artillery shells and ammunition overnight in some cases), Israel has been a great support.
Hi@Anonymous Jun 28, 2022, 10:43:00 PM
It is indeed a pity that airframes with so much life could be 'wasted'. That said, India is currently conducting trials to choose between the F/A 18 and Rafale Ms for the Indian aircraft carriers.
But for the deep sense of mistrust in Delhi regarding buying 'critical' systems such as fighter jets, The FA-18F should have been a shoo-in (and might still make the 36-57 plane order).
Now, The Rafale-M which I think is unsuited for a STOBAR carrier could end up getting the deal as the French are unlikely to become whimsical in the future. On the other hand, while American hardware is good, america's government is nuttier than a fruitcake and whimsically hypocritical (in the extreme, many a time). That makes the establishment in Delhi (Congress, BJP and everyone else) unitedly think that the US is not to be trusted. Empty words followed by sale of de-rated export versions such as the P-8I have only reinforced this perception.
PS: Frankly a squadron plus of ex-RAAF F-18s even flying from the shores of Gujarat close to the Sindh-Balochistan region would make a good addition to the IN Air Arm. I would personally be in favour of it. The Rafale is unsuited and naval Tejas needs work.
Thanks Ghalib Kabir [at Jun 28, 2022, 6:27:00 PM and Jun 29, 2022, 12:22:00 PM] and Oleg7700
For all that detail on non-Russian suppliers providing all those weapons systems to India.
While Russia may be providing fewer systems the ones it is still providing may take up much of India's acquisitions and development budget. This includes:
- S5 future full size SSBN reactors and other tech
- Alpha future SSN reactors and other tech
- BrahMos-I(related to Yakhont) supersonic missiles, and
- BrahMos-II hypersonic missiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos-II
= S-400 missiles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system#India
- likely tech for the Agni-VI ICBM (under development) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni_(missile)
- other tech eg. likely thermonuclear weapons plans and test results (cannot be proven or disproven)
- upgrades for India's most numerous T-90 tanks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Indian_Army#Armoured_combat_vehicles
Regards Pete
Hi Anonymous [at Jun 28, 2022, 10:43:00 PM] and Ghalib Kabir [at Jun 29, 2022, 12:32:00 PM]
Australia may want to hang onto its F/A-18Fs longer than one would expect because they enjoy training, maintenance and spares parts economies of scale with the EA-18Gs electronic warfare "Growlers" that Australia will very likely hang onto ie. probably can never export https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_EA-18G_Growler#Australia
Re-export of Australia's F/A-18Fs would, unfortunately for India's state of mind, require the approval of the US Government.
A US Congressional can of worms could open up. Also if Trump wins "Presidential Mayhem - The Sequel" in 2024 this could boost re-export haggling in ways Trump could trash.
Noting Australia and Canada have a re-exported F/A-18A relationship https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/first-two-australian-f-18s-for-the-rcaf-arrive-in-cold-lake-here-are-the-photos
Canada would probably be ahead of India in the queue to receive Australian F/A-18Fs when/if Australia gained US permission to re-export them.
Regards Pete
Hi Pete,
Growlers or regular F/A18s, I don't think RAAF will retire them any time soon given the uptick in Chinese naval activities. You need all the assets you can get your hands on as KJ600s, J-16s, naval FC31s etc. will pose a greater threat in the second island chain area in another 4-5 years.
The PLAN is growing at a frightening pace and that is going to truly strain the Quad's every type of resource.
It would appear Australia is likely to keep the F/A18F. In regards to E/A18G compatibility, half of the F’s (designated as F+) are pre wired for conversion to G. ie not just spare parts, 12 of them are conversion ready. It is more likely we will see an increase in fighter jet numbers. ie Australia may go to 100 F35 & 36 F18F/G. Hopefully the additional F35 will be B rather than A. Not just for potential off the LHD’s but also shorter runway locations & temporary runways which is not so easy with the F35A. The regional situation has side effects that previously government would have ignored.
Hi Ghalib Kabir [at Jul 1, 2022, 7:03:00 PM]
Yes I agree the RAAF's EA-18G Growlers and F/A-18Fs will likely remain in Aussie service till their Use By dates.
Who knows? As well as Chinese carriers there may be Chinese air/sea bases in the Solomons and East Timor in the next 10-15 years.
Then there is Vanuatu and Fiji - all small island states that may value Chinese cash and be vulnerable to Chinese naval pressure.
And the capability/quality of stealthy Chinese jets may be rising in ways unbeknowanced to us.
With Chinese bases so close to Australia this may nullify the other QUAD countries' ability to intercept Chinese fighter-bombers.
Cheers Pete
Hi Anonymous [at Jul 1, 2022, 10:30:00 PM]
Indeed keeing the F/A-18Fs would be useful.
Australia showed uncharacteristic foresight pre wiring half of the Fs for conversion to Gs.
The EA-18Gs make our already stealthy F-35As and also 18Fs even more difficult for enemies to see.
Yes Australia may go the way of Japan, with 35As and then buying 35Bs to put on small carriers. There may be a revival of Tony Abbott's desire to have 35Bs on Canberra-class LHDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra-class_landing_helicopter_dock#Design_and_capabilities
Certainly the ability of 35B's to disperse on roads and isolated hardstands may reduce the damage of Solomons or East Timor based Chinese stealth figher bombers pre-emptively striking Aus airbase parked 18s and 35s.
Then again Aussie SSNs might sink the odd Chinese carrier outright and use Tomahawk cruise missiles against regional Chinese air and sea bases.
Regards Pete
Pete,
RAN has already shown with Collins that they can get inside the USN ASW screen & line up one of their carriers. Their ability to do the same to others is highly likely. Collins is also to get Tomahawk in the near future as well other upgrades in line with what was listed for Attack (likely also for SSN as most were common with Astute).
F35B would also allow operation from airfields like Christmas Island, Cocus-Kealing, Manus etc. Even if the F35A can operate, any damage to the airfield is a major problem as there is often no alternative. F35B can land vertical. Manus would have any Chinese commander in the Solomons looking over his shoulder.
The Chinese will continue to improve the quality of their fighter jets. I have read a few times that they were behind the alleged hacking of the Northrop YF-23 model. On stealth coatings they have access to pieces of that bin laden raid helicopter that crashed. The pakistanis duly obliging the Chinese with salvaged pieces.
Bases in East Timor is unlikely and more likely in Vanuatu and Solomon Islands. I hope these island nations are not gullible enough to go the Sri Lanka and pakistan route. If I was betting man I am sure some of these will pacific islands blighters might allow the PLAN just to spite the aussies and French and Americans…
Hi Anonymous [at Jul 2, 2022, 8:49:00 PM]
While Chinese undersea sensors would give its carrier groups (eg. warships, carrier ASW aircraft and SSK escorts) advantages against Collins SSKs in the South China Sea
our SSKs would have the advantage given sensors in the Coral and Timor Seas and more broadly off our West, South and East coasts.
Tomahawks (from Aus SSKs, SSNs "air?) or mainland-launched) are so accurate they could hit future Chinese air-naval bases in the Solomons without Solomon Islander casualties.
Yes "airfields like Christmas Island, Cocus-Kealing, Manus" are like stationary unsinkable aircraft carriers and missile bases.
After Australia's initial 72 x F-35A purchase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II#Australia then F-35Bs may be the go.
Although there would be niches for Australia's Boeing MQ-28 Ghost Bat UCAVs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-28_Ghost_Bat with:
- ranges of "3,700 km" in swept-wing up to supersonic versions, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-28_Ghost_Bat#Specifications and
- more like 5,000 km range for straight-wing, longer loiter versions.
Regards Pete
Hi Ghalib Kabir [at Jul 2, 2022, 9:34:00 PM]
Undeniably those fiendish Red Chinese have had the gall to rapidly "improve the quality of their fighter jets".
"How dare you [China]". Letta rip Greta https://youtu.be/TMrtLsQbaok .
And whats more Chinese MSS and PLA intelligence agents and SigInt have lifted perfectly good YF-23 secrets and inadequately destroyed Abbottabad Stealth Helicopter materiels from our good selves.
All for China to, inter alia, speed development of Xi stealth jets ie. FC-31s (carrier versions on way) and J-20s (smaller version for carrier on way).
Re "Bases in East Timor is unlikely" methinks Dili Harbour improvements would be a fitting Naval Base for China's gulliblizing (term first used here!) Debt Trap Inc.".
Also dual-use Baucau Airport, in eastern East Timor, can take any Chinese "civilian" or military aircraft Xi can poke a stick at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baucau_Airport.
But I hand it to Mao Jr. ie. Xi, that the China Threat presents golden copy.
Cheers Pete
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