Anonymous
has kindly supplied the following details and Table. The following is
necessarally speculative about the future TKMS-Norwegian Type 212CD propulsion
characteristics as the 212CD may not be launched until around 2023. One of the
innovative technologies for 212CD is adoption of metal hydride for hydrogen
source. This is designed to achieve safer operation of the fuel cell (FC) AIP (see Table 1). A hydrogen
cylinder is used in the current conventional FC AIP on the TKMS Type 214 and 212A.
But,
in the new generation FC AIP, waste heat
from the FC is effectively used to generate hydrogen. This should be more
discrete.
Part of a prototype TKMS/tkMS and SENER methanol reforming FC AIP process. (Courtesy slide 26 of this SENER Presentation.)
---
TKMS
and Spain’s
SENER (private engineering and
technology group) are developing methanol
reforming FC which is safer than hydrogen or metal hydride FC AIP (for Type
214, 212A or future 212CD).
But
emissions from methanol reformer FC of carbon dioxide against the ocean’s water
pressure limits a submarine’s diving depth to around 200m. In contrast hydrogen
or metal hydride FC (used on Type 214, 212A and maybe future 212CD) produces
water which does not limit diving depth.
(Above and below) Type 212A
submarine cutaway indicating where the LOx tanks and hydrogen cylinders are.
They are outside the pressure hull for greater safety. (These cutaways all over web.)
The
diesel section of a Type 212A uses an outer light hull (diameter 6.8m) and a pressure
hull (ca.5.6m?). The two LOx cylinders are arranged above
the pressure hull. The LOx cylinder are shock resistant. These cylinder also
and have an insulated “adiabatic
structure” meaning they do not transfer heat to surroundings. This is totally different
than if the LOx cylinders were within the pressure hull (as in a current 214) as they may effect the temperature within the
hull.
The
Type 212A is equipped with 9 feul cells (8 x 34kW, and 1 x 34kW (auxiliary FC)).
These are superior to the 2
x 120kW on a Type 214.
The
hull diameter (8.4m) of a Type 212CD will be significantly larger than a 214’s
(6.3m) which has single hull structure. The 214 has 2 x MTU396 diesels.
In
contrast 3 x MTU (396 or 4000?)
diesels could be installed in a future Type 212CD especially if it uses
Lithium-ion Batteries (LIBs) to achieve
a higher charge rate [2]. Or 2 x MTUs could be installed on
a 212CD (especially those that retain existing Lead-acid Batteries (LABs). A relatively low charge rate using
1 or 2 loud diesels running a longer time (to charge LABs) may be less discrete
than 2 or 3 diesels running a shorter
time to charge LIBs quickly [6].
So,
a double hull will presumably be adopted for the diesel section of the future
Type 212CD, as with the current Type 212A. This suggests hydride cylinders will
be installed between the 212CD’s light and pressure hulls.
Table
1. Estimated Location of Cylinders and Submarine
Cylinder
|
Location
|
In Diesel section
|
Submarine type
|
|
Inside pressure hull [1]
|
Between light and pressure hulls [2]
|
|||
Metal hydride cylinder [3]
|
Yes
|
No
|
No
|
214 218SG,
|
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
212CD?
|
|
LOx cylinder
|
Yes [4]
|
No
|
No
|
214
|
No
|
Yes [5]
|
Yes
|
212A, 212CD?
|
[1] Simple structure consists of single pressure hull.
[2] Complex structure consists of ligh and pressure hulls.
[3] Electrochemical reaction between oxygen and hydrogen
generates electricity and heat in FC. Heat is transferred to metal hydride to
generate hydrogen for FC. Metal hydride cylinder has adiabatic stucture.
[4] Cryogenic cylinder is used for oxygen storage located inside
of pressure hull.
[5] This cryogenic cylinder is totally different from an ordinary
LOx cylinder and is shock resistant to explosions (eg. depth charges) near the submarine.
[6] Three 12PA V200 SMDS with similar dimension to MTUs would likely be installed
in the enlarged SAAB-Damen A26 single hull submarine design for the Netherlands Walrus replacement competition. The
enlarged A26 design has a smaller
diameter (of 8m) than 212CD submarine.
COMMENTS
Pete comments:
- Dutch Walrus replacement competition? An enlarged SAAB-Damen
designed A26 (once called
the
612) might be offered. Naval Group might possibly offer some design sharing Scorpene and
612) might be offered. Naval Group might possibly offer some design sharing Scorpene and
Australian Shortfin-Barracuda characteristics.
- Given the long trans-Atlantic distances a Walrus replacement would need to
travel the Netherlands
may not want any type of AIP – AIP being of diminishing
utility with distance and instead LIBs,
more than LABs, may stretch fully submerged travel.
- Western companies are interacting with China on methanol reformer
fuel cell generator technology
for cars and trucks. Such technology is dual-use,
China’s vast industrial base may easily reverse
engineer Western technology
for submarine use.
MHalblaub kindly provided the following
comments for the previous closely related Submarine
Matters’ article:
“The Type 212A always had metal hydride
storages for hydrogen.
Also I can't see a problem to use a methanol
reformer and metal hydride storages together. I guess a reformer may
outproduces most of the time the need of hydrogen so some kind of interim
storage would be necessary.
The boat has its own hydrogen producing
facility. So just methanol and oxygen is required for the fuel cells.”
Anonymous, Pete and MHalblaub.
6 comments:
Hi Pete & Mhalblaub
Thank you for correction. Your comment “The Type 212A always had metal hydride storages for hydrogen” is right. I used reliable two diagrams. In one diagram, cylinders under pressure hull of diesel section (214A) were discribed as hydrogen storage cylinders, and in another more reliable and newly diagram, metal hydride cylinders. Therefore, I misunderstood.
“Table 1. Estimated Location of Cylinders and Submarine” should be corrected as follows: i) delete row of “Hdrogen cylinder”, ii) correct row of “Metal hydride cylinder” (Future 214? --- > 214)
Regards
Hi Anonymous
Thanks for your correction comment, above.
I have changed Table 1. accordingly.
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
Though reported lost of TKMS [1] in the Warlus replacement bid of Netherlands which may be result in the chain reaction in Polish Orka bid is yet confirmed, business situation of TKMS is still misery [2]. Bad management of TKMS but also callous attitude of Germany against defense let to the current predicament of TKMS. In fact, Merkel administration did too much. Future of TKMS is unclear, but, its techonogy transfer to non-free countries and thier sympathizers should be prevented.
SENER reported methanol reforming fuel cell system three years ago (19/JAN/2016), but, research progress after this report is not clear. Do they have enough budget for R&D?
[1] http://www.defenseworld.net/news/24294/ThyssenKrupp__Navantia_Dropped_from_Netherlands_Submarine_Purchase_Bid#.XGt_0-j7TIV
This news is not confirmed by Neitherlands government. Is it rumor ? But, there is no smoke without fire.
[2] https://newsparticipation.com/saving-private-tkms/ (Saving private TKMS)
“The German naval industry is in desperate conditions, and no spin-doctor can hide it anymore. The last program has marked a point of no-return for German shipyards, and the end is nearing. But perhaps, with the now inevitable demise of ThyssenKrupp’s naval division, an opportunity for a new rationalized market is coming to light. A European blessing in disguise.”
[3] https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/new-system-means-methanol-suitable-for-submarines
In the process’s toughest conditions, SENER achieves a maximum bubble size of 200 μm at a depth of 18m for warm waters. The CO2 dissolution unit is in the process of being patented in Europe.
Regards
Hi Anonymous [at 20/2/19 6:18 PM ]
Thanks for the information and links on the Netherlands possibly dropping Germany's TKMS and Spain's Navantia from the Walrus submarine replacement competition.
As http://www.defenseworld.net/news/24294/ThyssenKrupp__Navantia_Dropped_from_Netherlands_Submarine_Purchase_Bid#.XG4OFaIzbX6 indicates The Netherlands "is expected to take a decision "next Friday" [22 February or 1 March 2019?] about a possible selection of Swedish-Dutch Saab-Damen or French Naval Group I will wait until the Netherlands has made a decision.
If there is no decision by 1 March 2019 I will turn this 20/2/19 6:18 PM information into an article.
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
Four years ago, Der Spiegel revealed the serious problems of second batch of 214A [1,2]. In the case of 214 for South Korea, serious problems of 214 are reported.
[1] http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-131355085.html
[2] U35 and U36 are the second batch of 212A which equips with an optical mast and is slightly longer (57.2m) than the fist batch (56m, U31-34).
Regards
Dear Anonymous,
The problems were and are not related specifically to Type 212A. The problems are related to insuffcient personal to test the submarines right after receiving them and insufficient spare parts to run the fleet.
Regards,
MHalblaub
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