Following the South Korean Destroyer Confrontation With Japanese P-1 MPA originally happening December 20, 2018 [tensions between the Japanese and South Korean navies remain strong]:
Last year, the SK Navy dared to request from the J-MoD [acoustic stealth and Lithium-ion Battery information[??] on Japanese submarine operation for use in SK's new 3,000 ton Jang Bogo submarine KSS-III Program] .
On the original Japanese video "https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=s93-l68D3Eo at around 0:45 seconds in, there is the same scene you only hear Japanese language voice.
"Now how in the world did that Korean message get in there after Japan had released the Youtube?"
Anonymous and Tri-ring with some additions by Pete in [...] brackets
Anonymous advised January 5, 2019 that Japan's Ministry of Defense (J-MoD) seems to be furious at the South Korean (SK) Department of Defense [SK-DoD] [altering a] Youtube video. [1]
The J-MoD may release the shape of SK Fire Control radar wave, "but it wll be useless for the SK Navy."
"This radar issue, typical anti-Japan
feeling of SK is beyond the responsibilities of the J-MoD and should be treated
comprehensively, systematically and calmly by the entire Japanese administration, not just by J-MoD, to provide an effective result."
Last year, the SK Navy dared to request from the J-MoD [acoustic stealth and Lithium-ion Battery information[??] on Japanese submarine operation for use in SK's new 3,000 ton Jang Bogo submarine KSS-III Program] .
The J-MoD
will never assist SK in this submarine data provision. In fact, Mr Masahisa Sato, defense supporting counsellor
of Japan's [Diet/Parliament] Lower House and an ex-Commander of the Japanese Army questioned what the main target of this submarine was [2].
[1] On January 4, 2019 Tri-ring
seriously could not believe the SK-DoD recently
released a doctored/altered Youtube Video version of a Youtube originally/earlier released by Japan. The SK-DoD had actually
doctored the original to add some voice. The SK DoD released video https://youtu.be/4dpWAWpzWyE. You’ll hear 3 mins 35 secs someone state
something in Korean.
On the original Japanese video "https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=s93-l68D3Eo at around 0:45 seconds in, there is the same scene you only hear Japanese language voice.
"Now how in the world did that Korean message get in there after Japan had released the Youtube?"
[2] https://twitter.com/SatoMasahisa/status/1077794023803301888 [Tweet in Japanese but right-click mouse to Translate].
“Basic design of next 3000 tonne class submarine completed, start building at late 2019 = SK https://jp.yna.co.kr/view/AJP20181226000800882
“According to announcement of SK, this submarine is built to respond to threats from all directions and six ballistic missiles with range of 500 km can be installed. I wonder who the main enemy of this submarine is.”
“Basic design of next 3000 tonne class submarine completed, start building at late 2019 = SK https://jp.yna.co.kr/view/AJP20181226000800882
“According to announcement of SK, this submarine is built to respond to threats from all directions and six ballistic missiles with range of 500 km can be installed. I wonder who the main enemy of this submarine is.”
Anonymous and Tri-ring with some additions by Pete in [...] brackets
16 comments:
Many in Japan are skeptical about SK's ability in constructing subs in general.
If you look into the Wiki JP concerning type 214 which Korea has been constructed under license, you'll see they are plagued with problems that they were not able to solve by themselves and had to gain assistance from Germany to remedy the problems several times.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/214%E5%9E%8B%E6%BD%9C%E6%B0%B4%E8%89%A6#%E9%9F%93%E5%9B%BD
In 2006, their first boat had problem with it's screw making too much noise and had to replace it with a new one.
In 2010 they had flaws with the bolts that fastened the sail with the boat resulting to dry docking all boats and required HDW's assistance to remedy the problem.
In 2012 the lead boat was resonating noise of unknown origin and had to again gain assistance from Germany which took 20 months to solve the issue.
Some claims the reason was because the Koreans tried to dismantle a black box without HDW's permission and broke it in the process.
In 2014, the three boats that were in commission claimed they were able to remain submerged for weeks at a time with the Hydrogen fuel cells but was found that the Korean fuel cells were plagued with problems going off line numerous times forcing their boats to only remain submerged for only days at a time.
In 2015, the forth boat also had noise issue, which gave off noise of more than 40Db louder than required tactical tolerance level.
They also found more than 100 fractures on the screw of the third boat in 2014.
You can say they had various teething problems but it was a licensed product that Germany had done testing and based on 212A type which is said to be a very stable platform.
We don't hear much about the boats fifth and after so they may have been able to solved all issues but I am skeptical about this.
Hi Pete
Data source is as follows. We can understand anger of Japan-MoD.
https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASLBC3HR5LBCUHBI01F.html Oct/11/2018
“Considering the sea lane defense, SK has been rushing to organize an ocean fleet. If JMSDF introduces AEGIS ships and large transport ships, it has prepared the same equipment. A former SK Diet member said, "when we said JMSDF had it, the budget was easy admitted the Diet. SK has learned maritime tactics and techniques through defense exchanges with JMSDF.”
“According to person concerned on Japan-SK relation, in the past, SK Navy inspected the minesweeping training of JMSDF and also showed a strong interest in its anti-submarine tactics by P-3C patrol aircraft. When SK Navy built a 3,000-ton class new submarine whose launching ceremony was carried out in September, SK Navy also requested JMSDF informally to provide information on building technology and operation.”
Regards
Hi Tri-ring and Anonymous
Thanks for the extra infrmation and views of January 6, 2019 on South Korea's submarine technology shortfalls - at https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=19245896&postID=890991281221544211
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
Recentry, THE DIPLOMAT suggested possible withdrawal of US troops from Korean Peninsula [1]. Attitude to politics and diplomacy of President Trump dose not deny this speculation and he really needs money to build Iron Wall between US and Mexico.
[1] https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/the-us-south-korea-military-cost-sharing-agreement-has-expired-now-what/ (Kyle Ferrier, JAN/04/2019)
“The US-South Korea Military Cost-Sharing Agreement Has Expired. Now What?”
Regards
Thanks Anonymous [at 7/1/19 3:20 PM]
COMMENT
IN THE SPIRIT OF TRUMP THREATENING LESS US SUPPORT FOR SOUTH KOREA LACK OF PERCEIVED US SUPPORT FOR SOUTH KOREA HELPED BRING ON THE KOREAN WAR IN 1950. Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Prelude_to_war_(1950)
"As the U.S. had not directly intervened to stop the communist victory in China, Stalin calculated that they would be even less willing to fight in Korea, which had much less strategic significance.
The Soviets had also cracked the codes used by the U.S. to communicate with their embassy in Moscow, and reading these dispatches convinced Stalin that Korea did not have the importance to the US that would warrant a nuclear confrontation."
David Maxwell at THE HILL https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/423756-a-looming-threat-to-the-us-south-korea-alliance January 4, 2019 has also provided good commentary on the US-South Korean Special Measures Agreement (SMA) :
A looming threat to the US-South Korea alliance
BY DAVID MAXWELL, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 01/04/19 09:00 AM EST 17 THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL
"The alliance between the Republic of Korea and the United States may be about to go off the rails. Two critical events occurred in December 2018 that do not bode well for the future of this crucial alliance. First, talks between the ROK and U.S. governments collapsed without reaching a new Special Measures Agreement (SMA) to fund U.S. troops on the Peninsula before the current deal expired on December 31. At the same time, President Trump has firmly reiterated his transactional view of alliances in his decision to withdraw U.S. forces from Syria, substantially draw down troops in Afghanistan, and in his tweets condemning Secretary Mattis’ resignation letter, which expressed the fundamental differences in views on the importance of alliances to the U.S.
Trump may see the SMA impasse as an opportunity to end the U.S. presence. At his press conference on June 12th at the Singapore summit, he declared that he wanted to bring U.S. troops home..."
A useful South Korean perspective on this confrontation:
By Sukjoon Yoon of The Diplomat January 12, 2019 https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/japan-and-south-koreas-unnecessary-squabble/
"Japan and South Korea’s Unnecessary Squabble - The radar lock-on spat centers on a key point: search and rescue operations are not warfare..."
Further from Yoon The Diplomat (paysite) January 12, 2019 https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/japan-and-south-koreas-unnecessary-squabble/
"The stance taken by Japan on this incident is best explained by political factors. The government of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is currently suffering historically low approval ratings, and this situation clearly provides a useful pretext to stir up jingoistic sentiments in his base... Obviously, Abe is seeking an opportunity to strike back at Korea, and is therefore using the P-1 incident for political purposes."
"...It is entirely possible that the JMSDF were aware of the true nature of the SAR operations, but ordered the P-1 to buzz ROKS DDG 971 as a deliberate provocation, in which case the P-1 may have been appropriately targeted as a potential hostile.
Of course, this kind of behavior from the JMSDF would be very dangerous, since the Korean Peninsula is still technically at war..."
Hi Pete
Time series of the FC radar incident is as follows.
DEC/21/2018, Japan MoD: P-1 received FC radar irradiation form the SK destroyer in Japanese EEZ.
DEC/22/2018, SK MoD: The destroyer used all of radar including FC radar to search NK ship in distress in the rough sea and there was FC radar irradiation for P-1.
DEC/24/2018, SK MoD: Monitored P-1 with cameras to be linked with FC radar, but there was no FC radar irradiation for P-1.
DEC/28/2018, Japan MoD: Released viedo by P-1. (NK ship was near ton the SK destroyer, why the SK destroyer uesed radar? The sea was calm as shown the video.)
DEC/28/2018, SK MoD: Was furious at Japan MoD because Japan released its viedo and remended apology. Said “we were in norman rescue operation and did not use FC radar for P-1 at all.”
JAN/02/2018, SK MoD: Requested alopogy for Japan MoD, because of menacing
low-altitude flight by P-1.
JAN/04/2019, SK MoD: Released the video with BGM using the Japanese video.
JAN/14/2019, Japan and SK MoDs: Discussed the irradiation issue in Singapore and agreed non-disclosure of the discussion. But, SK MoD released detail of the discussion against the agreement. SK MoD requested “3mile (4.8km)” distance between warship and patrol aircraft.
JAN/16/2019, Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) of Japan: Requested Japanese government for strict response to SK. Commented “3mile distance was insane.”
Journalists and experts of SK did not access the inconsistancy of explanation by SK MoD including violation of the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES) by SK destroyer.
Discard of agreement of comfort women agreement by SK government and dicision of pay compensation for former Korean labors by SK supreme Court are clearly against Article 27 of Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties which Japan and SK approved [1].
[1] https://treaties.un.org/doc/publication/unts/volume%201155/volume-1155-i-18232-english.pdf page 339
“Article 27. INTERNAL LAW AND OBSERVANCE OF TREATIES A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty.”
Regards
Hi Pete
SK MoD announced in the Defense White Paper issued on JAN/15/2019, "Our armies regard us as the enemy that threatens and infringes the sovereignty, land, people, property of the Republic of Korea." With this, the word "North Korean army re-emerged in 2010 edition" was to be removed for the first time in 8 years. The new definition of the enemy has important implications
Japan always requests SK to stop Takeshima of Squatte and SK replys such request is sovereignty infringement. “Day of Takeshima“ by Shimane Prefecture, Japan makes SK furious. In the context of the said Defense White Paper, Japan is implicitly potential enemy of SK rather than friendly country. Moon Jae-in Administration is going to irreversibly change the bilateral relations between Japan and SK.
Regards
Thanks Anonymous [for 17/1/19 2:15 AM and 17/1/19 3:14 AM ]
China and North Korea are certainly benefitting from the Japan-South Korea confrontation.
The result of the confrontation may be South Korea getting even closer to China. This closeness was demonstrated by South Korea's President attending China's 2015 Parade https://www.smh.com.au/world/park-geunhyes-diplomatic-dance-with-xi-jinping-has-heads-spinning-in-asia-20150910-gjjvq9.html
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
Very recentry, Ex-Commander in Chief of the Self Defense Fleet (Vice Admiral),Yoji Koda calmly and detaily explained situation of FC radar irradiation incident. According the Ex-Commander, JMSDF P-1 conducted BAU operation and what SK MoD said was perfect lie [1].
Currently, SK MoD very loudly criticizes so-called repeated threat by JMSDF P-3C and provides an explanation of the threat to US. SK MoD underestimates US Navy, who is professional and can understand who lies. Fabrication of the threat by SK MoD suggests Japan being its potential enemy. Moon Jae-in is much more terrible than Park Geun-hye and sucked all experienced deplomats to exclude bad tradition. Therefore, repair of the broken relationship between Japan and SK in the next SK administration seems to be difficult.
[1] Ships of the World, vol. 895, 2019(FEB). “SK destroyer conducted FC radar irradiation against JMSDF patrol plane” by Y. Koda.
Regards
Hi Anonymous [at 26/1/19 1:23 AM]
It certainly seems that South Korea and Japan need to negotiate friendly relations and eventually an alliance.
An SK-Japan alliance will be essential to counter North Korea and China.
SK and Japan should certainly work together developing submarines (maybe nuclear propelled and nuclear armed) rather than SK and Japan pursuing expensive separate submarine development programs.
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
Bunch of lie and recent threat by SK MoD [1] have destroyed defense coorperation with Japan [2]. If SK realizes threat, Japan will definitely conduct economic sanction.
Moon’s wrong economic policy of ninimum wage increase in under recession and trade war between China and US (20% of SK trade is for China) provide serious ecnomic damage such as high unemployment rate. In contrast, Japan enjoys good economy. Last year, 21,000 Koreans found job in Japan, which was indrect econimic support, and SK thanked Japan by FC radar irradiation and threat.
USA has precise information on P-1 & P-3C incidents through data link with JMSDF. Moon Jae-in admistration might expect withdrawal of US mililitary from SK to realize Unified Korea armed with nukes and to enlarge interests in the Sea of Japan. Geopolytics in East Asia is going to fluidize.
Coorperative development of submarine by Japan and SK never happens.
[1] https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2019/01/24/accusations-fly-between-south-korea-and-japan-over-threatening-aircraft-maneuvers-radar-targeting/
South Korea called the alleged action “an apparent provocation” and said Japanese aircraft conducted similar maneuvers near South Korean naval vessels on Jan. 18 and Jan. 22, warning that the South Korean military will react against future incidents in accordance with its protocols, although it did not specify what these were.
[2] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/01/26/national/politics-diplomacy/amid-deteriorating-ties-japan-plans-cancel-participation-izumo-destroyer-joint-exercise-held-south-korea/#.XE2s51z7TIU
“Amid deteriorating ties, Japan plans to cancel participation of Izumo destroyer in joint exercise to be held in South Korea”
Regards
Thanks for your comment Anonymous [at 28/1/19 2:15 AM]
The Western media is worried, with CNN via the Australian media https://www.9news.com.au/2019/01/28/17/13/japan-news-military-tension-with-south-korea-could-escalate-into-crisis quoting:
"Analysts like [Van Jackson, a former US Defense Department official] worry that the current spat is a manifestation of declining US leadership, and will play into the hands of North Korea and China...
"What we're seeing lately is a return to history in some sense - [Japan and South Korea] never fully reconciled when they normalized relations in 1965, and put a lot of conflicts of interest on the back burner in the name of cooperation with the US," Jackson said.
"If something doesn't change, I expect some kind of serious crisis to break out at some point, unfortunately."
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
The FC radar irradiation incident might be an omen of discard of US-SK alliance and nuclear armament of Korea by SLBM, which are far more serious than CNN’s analysis [1,3].
Data link between JMSDF and US Navy and close contact of Japan and US, US understands the situation of the FC radar irradiation exactly and is furious at SK. But, US shows the neutral attitude with respect to this issue and Japanese Minster of Defense announced the defense corporation between Japan and SK was quite important, though the defense corporation actually collapsed. I think both US and Japan understand will of SK, where SK purposely makes US angry to provide announcement of withdrawal of US-SK alliance from the US side. To prevent this situation, US ans Japan try to be calm.
Though “complete, verifiable, and irreversible dismantlement of nuclear weapons (CVID)” is not conducted in NK, Moon Jae-in tried to ease sanctions on NK [2] disturbing denuclearization in Korean Peninsula. Moon Jae-in and Kim Jon Un are going to build submarine with nuke SLBM where the former and the latter provide submarine and nuke SLBM, respectively. Left wing of SK dreams Unified Korea, but, after the unification of SK and NK, Kim Jon Un will terminate these people at first. SLBM may be used for Japan to get methane hydrate in Japanese EEZ.
Comment is based on series of articles by T Suzuoki, watch dog of SK and NK, ex-editor of Nikkei Inc. [3]. US showed faint sign against SK [4]. SK should understand importance of the camp of the Free World. In fact, bad economic situation of SK is bad [5].
[1]https://www.9news.com.au/2019/01/28/17/13/japan-news-military-tension-with-south-korea-could-escalate-into-crisis
[2]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/19/south-korea-north-korea-nuclear-tensions-trump Moon Jae-in is gambling with North Korea – and it could upset the US
[3] Detail analysis on SK and NK including mentality of Korean people is conducted.
https://business.nikkei.com/atcl/report/15/226331/010700211/
https://business.nikkei.com/atcl/report/15/226331/122600210/
https://business.nikkei.com/atcl/report/15/226331/122000209/
https://business.nikkei.com/atcl/report/15/226331/121400208/
https://business.nikkei.com/atcl/report/15/226331/120600206/ (Moon Jae-in disturbs denuclearization in Korean Peninsula)
[4] https://www.sankei.com/world/news/181016/wor1810160015-n1.html
On Oct/12/2018, Stars and Stripes announced “US military base in Japan strict entry of Koreans and requires preliminary review “
[5] Economists point out recent economic situation in SK as follows: i) reduction of export of semiconductor (SAMSUNG) which is only one main pillar of SK industries, ii) bad economy of China, which is 20% of export destination of SK, caused by the collapse of the bubble economy and trade war against US, and iii) an increase in minimum wage (30% increase in two years) under bad economic situation is much bigger than GDP growth rate of SK (2-3% annually) result in a significant rise in unemployment (22.8% for young people).
Regards
Hi Anonymous [your 29/1/19 7:50 PM]
I think the the CNN report via https://www.9news.com.au/2019/01/28/17/13/japan-news-military-tension-with-south-korea-could-escalate-into-crisis
is significant when quoting:
"Analysts...worry that the current [confrontation] is a manifestation of declining US leadership"
Probably such South Korean-Japan friction has usually been quickly resolved when the US is acting as an intermediary. This would be especially at the level of non-public back-channels (eg. intelligence and naval personnel quietly resolving it in one room).
But now politicians are in the unhelpful position of publicly fighting about highly technical radar and aircraft-ship procedures and video.
Regards
Pete
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