August 16, 2022

Naval Group LIBs Possible for India & Indonesia

Pete Comment

In late 2018 Naval Group was offering Lithium-ion Batteries (LIBs) for its Scorpene and presumably for the now cancelled Attack class submarines.

India, eyeing submarine LIBs developments in late 2020 put out a Request for Information (RFI) for submarine. 

In February 2022 it is understood the 2 Scorpenes Naval Group may supply to Indonesia incorporate LIBs technology. 

LTO and NCA LIBs may be preferred by Japan for submarines - see SM on this.

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Anonymous kindly commented on August 16, 2022:

European suppliers all have an offer LIBs technology for submarine. The preferred technology in Europe is the Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) aka LFP. For details of LFP see Battery University and here and here. There is the LIBs pioneered by Saft and also recently by FAAM for the Italian Type 212NFS.


Snapshot of the qualities of a typical LFP battery.
(Diagram courtesy Battery University)
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Naval Group, TKMS and Navantia all have agreements with Saft. The LFP system is intrinsically safe, with a long life (2000+ cycles) flat discharge curve and rapid charge. Selected by Tesla, BMW, aircraft, LFP does not use exotic materials such as Mn, Ni or Co. It will likely dominate the automotive market on a large scale

LFP is lower in Specific Energy density but higher in Specific Power density than Lithium Cobalt Oxide (LiCoO2) aka LCO or similar technology used by Japanese and South Korean cars. LCO requires an extensive safety and battery management system and is essentially a scale up of consumer electronics market items (eg. mobile phones). 

To fully exploit the rapid charge (low indiscretion ratio) nature of submarine LIBs very large, powerful, diesel engines are required. 

With Lead-acid Batteries a submarine might need to recharge every 2 or 3 days but with LIBs high speed recharging every 5 to 7 days is possible. 

[Pete comment: Although submarine commanders may prefer more frequent recharging to keep their batteries "topped up". This is in case rapid escape from threats or prolonged submergence in high threat areas (like the South China Sea) is required.] 

6 comments:

  1. Anonymous8/16/2022 9:12 PM

    Sorry,erratum, LFP are lower in Energy density but higher in Power density

    ReplyDelete
  2. Pete8/16/2022 11:06 PM

    Thanks Anonymous

    Change made.

    Pete

    ReplyDelete
  3. wispywood23449/11/2022 1:08 AM

    Hi Pete.

    The TRDI (present ATLA) pointed out that the advantages of LIBs over LABs are not only that more than twice energy density, that higher charging speed, but also that more than 1.5 times larger number of charge-discharge cycle in lifetime. [1]

    This means that compared to LABs, LIBs can handle 3(=2x1.5) times more energy until their replacement.
    If the total amount of energy handled in a year is equivalent, the battery replacement frequency of LIBs can be less than 1/3 of that of LABs.

    Then, Let's consider the impact of this on the JMSDF submarine fleet.

    In addition to the effect of the 1.33(=640/480) times increase in the number of battery units installed[2], the frequency of battery replacement in the JMSDF LIB submarine will be less than 1/4 of that in the conventional JMSDF LAB submarines.
    The JMSDF LAB submarines experience battery replacement once every 6 years, so it can be expected that the JMSDF LIB submarines will expecience it once every 24 years.
    What is noteworthy is that this is almost equal to the lifetime of a JMSDF submarine.
    In other words, there is a strong possibility that the JMSDF LIB submarines will not experience any battery replacement until their decommission.

    As battery technology continues to advance[3], the current submarine LIBs are expected to become obsolete in the future.
    Eliminating the need for battery replacement would eliminate the need to procure technologically-obsolete batteries for replacements, thereby rationalizing the procurement of submarine batteries.

    [1]https://warp.da.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/11339364/www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/hyouka/seisaku/results/18/jigo/honbun/jigo05_honbun.pdf$page=2
    [2]The JMSDF specification "Submarine motor system (SMC-8B)" p.9
    [3]https://warp.da.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/11339364/www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/hyouka/seisaku/results/30/pdf/jizen_08_honbun.pdf

    Regards

    wispywood2344

    ReplyDelete
  4. Pete9/11/2022 1:56 PM

    Thanks wispywood2344

    Very interesting details about LIBs.

    I'll turn them into an article tomorrow.

    Regards Pete

    ReplyDelete
  5. wispywood23449/24/2022 11:27 PM

    Hi Pete.

    The Soryu Mk.1s were equipped with LABs and 2 conventional diesel gensets.
    The maximum electrical output of the gensets totaled 3700 kW (=2*1850), but the LABs could only accept about 60-70% of that.
    This resulted in an Indiscretion Ratio (IR) of about 9-10% at an average speed of 4 kt without AIP.

    The Taigei Mk.2s use LIBs instead of LABs, so there is more opportunity to run the gensets at full power.
    Moreover, new diesel gensets are adopted that are about 50% more powerful than the previous model [1].
    As a result, battery charging power is greatly increased, and the IR at an average speed of 4 kt is reduced to about 4-5%.

    More and more countries will adopt LIBs in their submarines, but what level of genset power will they require?
    It's interesting.

    [1]TRDI specification "New Snorkel Generator System (Part.1)". p.10

    Regards

    wispywood2344

    ReplyDelete
  6. Pete10/05/2022 6:09 PM

    Thanks wispywood2344

    I've turned your Sep 24, 2022, 11:27:00 PM info, on Taigei LIBs etc, into article

    "Taigei's LIBs With More Powerful Kawasaki Diesels" of October 4, 2022,

    at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2022/10/taigeis-libs-with-more-powerful.html

    Cheers Pete

    ReplyDelete

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