tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post5782032702881891532..comments2024-03-29T14:20:26.555+11:00Comments on Submarine Matters & Australian Nuclear Weapons: Australia's Naval Shipbuilding Blueprint for the Next 20 YearsPete2http://www.blogger.com/profile/06134037393078707072noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-38889674744739416852015-08-09T13:30:36.364+10:002015-08-09T13:30:36.364+10:00Hi MHalblaub
If the 1,800 t Braunschweig-class we...Hi MHalblaub<br /><br />If the 1,800 t Braunschweig-class were more modular, multi-role and did not have <br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig-class_corvette#Technical_problems and weighed less it may be a choice. Australia is renaming the requirement Offshore Patrol Vessel instead of Offshore Combatant Vessel to shift the emphasis to non-combat duties - mainly refugees, also anti-drugs, fisheries, mine-sweeper and survey - not after Baltic warships.<br /><br />The danger of starting with a 1,800 ton platform is the RAN will ask for additional equipment ("wish list") of a few hundred tons.<br /><br />I like Singapore 1,200 ton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence-class_littoral_mission_vessel . Light enough for the add-ons - modular, multirole - with the first of class has just been launched. Similar boats af similar tonnage should be also considered.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-51057364165961043752015-08-09T13:09:20.794+10:002015-08-09T13:09:20.794+10:00Hi Nicky
Yes River class and Protector class OPV ...Hi Nicky<br /><br />Yes River class and Protector class OPV are Goldilocks compliant. <br /><br />True that Australia needs one common ship for four separate ship classes: the Armidale-class patrol boats, the Huon-class minehunters, the Leeuwin-class survey vessels. Odd that the Paluma-class is officially called "motor launches" as though the alternative is oar-rowed long boats. <br /><br />No Goldilocks look with frown on over large "National Security cutter". <br /><br />Australia is too small a Navy to have 2,300 tonnes, intermediate sized https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence-class_littoral_combat_ship . The aluminium hull is also vulnerable. <br /><br />The OPV will be our littoral solutions.<br /><br />Australia's heavier Frigates must be littoral and blue-water capable with less vulnerable hulls.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-85802412599677635132015-08-08T21:14:31.995+10:002015-08-08T21:14:31.995+10:00What about the 1,800 t Braunschweig-class corvette...What about the 1,800 t Braunschweig-class corvette?<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig-class_corvette<br /><br />Regards,<br />MHalblaubMHalblaubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14234020711635190127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-66793966817455456152015-08-08T03:46:32.621+10:002015-08-08T03:46:32.621+10:00Hi Pete,
For Australia, I do think the River clas...Hi Pete, <br />For Australia, I do think the River class OPV or the Protector class OPV is something that Australia needs. For one, Australia needs one common ship for four separate ship classes: the Armidale-class patrol boats, the Huon-class minehunters, the Leeuwin-class survey vessels, and the Paluma-class survey motor launches. I would think Australia would want something as high as a National Security cutter and as low as the Protector class OPV or River class OPV. Even their was talk of Australia taking the Independence-class littoral combat ship for their low end work.Nickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15318590507921043958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-13599750832283739282015-08-07T17:34:14.764+10:002015-08-07T17:34:14.764+10:00Hi Nicky [at August 6, 2015 at 3:37 PM]
The http...Hi Nicky [at August 6, 2015 at 3:37 PM] <br /><br />The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River-class_patrol_vessel at 1,700 tons passes the Goldilocks test. Known supplier. May have the improved sea keeping Australia is after.<br /><br />NZ Protector-class offshore patrol vessel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protector_class_OPV was actually built in Australia - Williamstown, Victoria. Might be big business, political problems if the main ships have to be assembled in South Australia. May be too heavy at 1,900 tons as Australia would always want to add to the weight.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-80957807286920324052015-08-06T20:53:55.231+10:002015-08-06T20:53:55.231+10:00Hi Pete
Answer of Q1
Submarine operation period ...Hi Pete <br /><br />Answer of Q1<br />Submarine operation period used to be as short as 18 years, and JMSDF was criticized. Also National Defense Program Outline FY 2011 decided to increase number of submarine to 24 including 2 training submarines.<br /><br />Answer of Q2<br />Submarine building span in Japan is in line with Long-term or Mid-term Defense Buildup Plan and technology innovation.<br /><br />Answer of Q3<br />I think that Australia may reduce defense cost as a result of reduction in number of submarines. <br /><br />Answer of Q4<br />Asashio, precedent submarine of Oyashio Class with NS110 and NS80 pressure hull like Soryu Class had experienced hull-cutting for experimental equipment of Starling AIP system. After hull-cutting, submerge depth of Asashio was limited.<br /><br />Answer of Q4.1<br />Aside whether JMSDF agrees NS110 technology transfer or not, advise from Japan is required, because Japan has an experience of hull-cutting of Asashio.<br /><br />Regards<br />S<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-43184663986146662402015-08-06T18:37:41.346+10:002015-08-06T18:37:41.346+10:00Hi S [at August 5, 2015 at 3:32 PM]
Before I publ...Hi S [at August 5, 2015 at 3:32 PM]<br /><br />Before I publish my article on Japanese-Australian submarine issues, please provide answers concerning:<br /><br />1. Why "operation period of Soryu is 24 years"?<br /><br />2. Why not 30 years like Germany, France and almost all other submarine builders?<br /><br />3. What happens if Australia needs to lift availabily of its Japanese built submarine to 80% in time of strategic need?<br /><br />4. What happens if Australia wants to cut the NS110 pressure hull and reweld it to do major maintenance work (including large parts replacement on the propulsion system) or major emergency repairs? <br /><br />4.1 Can this pressure hull cutting-rewelding work be done in Australia?<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-61904597758320677532015-08-06T15:37:05.593+10:002015-08-06T15:37:05.593+10:00HI Pete,
I am think more like the River class OPV ...HI Pete,<br />I am think more like the River class OPV that the British make for themselves and for Thailand. The other could be spain's Buque de Acción Marítima or modified Protector-class offshore patrol vessel from New Zealand.Nickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15318590507921043958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-12621643905876051422015-08-06T14:46:08.299+10:002015-08-06T14:46:08.299+10:00Hi Nicky
Nope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holla...Hi Nicky<br /><br />Nope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland-class_offshore_patrol_vessels is too big.<br /><br /> National Security cutters (4,000+ tonnes) are US, China, Japan sized but not what Australia will consider for OPVs/OCVs.<br /><br />One needs a Goldilocks view:<br /><br />- 2,000+ too big, <br /><br />- 1,000- too small<br /><br />- about 1,200 tonnes, just right :)<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-62923629060615329382015-08-06T14:30:23.667+10:002015-08-06T14:30:23.667+10:00HI Pete
I think for Australia, they should look at...HI Pete<br />I think for Australia, they should look at a MEKO 600 Frigate. It fits right into their overseas missions and at home as well. One frigate can combine both the Anzac class frigate and Perry class Frigate.<br /><br />As for an OPV, I think the US Coast Guard's National Security Cutter is a perfect fit for Australia. The NSC has the SEA legs and can remain on station longer. Here's details on the NSC<br /><br />National Security Cutter: Program Profile<br />http://www.uscg.mil/acquisition/nsc/features.asp<br /><br />Here's Specs on the National Security Cutter<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Cutter<br /><br />Displacement: 4,500 long tons (4,600 t)<br />Length: 418 feet (127 m)<br />Beam: 54 feet (16 m)<br />Draft: 22.5 feet (6.9 m)<br />Propulsion: Combined diesel and gas<br />2 × 7.400 kW MTU 20V 1163 diesels<br />1 × 22MW LM2500 gas turbine engine[3]<br />Speed: Over 28 knots (52 km/h; 32 mph)<br />Range: 12,000 nautical miles (22,000 km; 14,000 mi)<br />Complement: 113 (14 Officers + 99 Enlisted)<br />Sensors and<br />processing systems: EADS 3D TRS-16 Air Search Radar<br />SPQ-9B Fire Control Radar<br />AN/SPS-73 Surface Search Radar<br />AN/SLQ-32<br />Electronic warfare<br />and decoys: AN/SLQ-32 Electronic Warfare System<br />2 SRBOC/ 2 x NULKA countermeasures chaff/rapid decoy launcher<br />Armament: 1 x Bofors 57 mm gun and Gunfire Control System<br />1 x 20 mm Close-In Weapons System<br />4 x .50 Caliber Machine Guns<br />2 x M240B 7.62mm Medium Machine Guns<br />Aircraft carried: 2 x MH-65C Dolphin MCH, or 4 x VUAV or 1 x MH-65C Dolphin MCH and 2 x VUAV<br />Aviation facilities: 50-by-80-foot (15 m × 24 m) flight deck, hangar for all aircraft<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Cutter<br /><br />Even the Netheralnds builds a good OPV such as the Holland class OPV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland-class_offshore_patrol_vessels<br /><br />There's even a concept that HII has proposed taking the National Security cutter design and turn it into a patrol Frigate. Here's the Video presentation.<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OJZ8eB_mPANickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15318590507921043958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-1988615008014409472015-08-06T13:54:59.797+10:002015-08-06T13:54:59.797+10:00Hi Nicky
I don't know enough about specific f...Hi Nicky<br /><br />I don't know enough about specific frigates to specifically respond.<br /><br />Whatever frigate Australia chooses it should choose an existing, proven design and be built with a minimum number of companies - all of whom have concrete responsibilities.<br /><br />Australia should not buy a frigate design excessively large because size = cost.<br /><br />Yes definitly Australia should talk to the US Coast Guard about OPVs, not just European builder/users. Australia's OPV needs enough capacity to accomodate 100 refugees - as refugees, not drug smuggling, is Australia's major on water law enforcement challenge.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-34263239629866000882015-08-06T13:45:05.683+10:002015-08-06T13:45:05.683+10:00Hi S
You raise interesting issues - which I will ...Hi S<br /><br />You raise interesting issues - which I will respond to in my next article being written today.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-4178348561920289702015-08-05T15:50:11.802+10:002015-08-05T15:50:11.802+10:00Hi pete,
I think for Australia, if they are lookin...Hi pete,<br />I think for Australia, if they are looking for a High end Frigate. The FREMM Frigate is one option, the German F-125 Frigate is another option and the German Meko 600 Frigate is an option for them. What the Australians are looking for is a Frigate that combines the Perry class Frigate with the ANZAC class frigates. <br /><br />I know they are looking for a larger OPV to replace the Armidale class patrol boats as well. I think they should talk to the US Coast Guard on getting the Legend class Cutters aka National security cutters from them.Nickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15318590507921043958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-18823890861906218252015-08-05T15:32:55.987+10:002015-08-05T15:32:55.987+10:00Hi Pete
I think that the operation period without...Hi Pete<br /><br />I think that the operation period without considering the rate of operation is meaningless. <br /><br />Submarine hull will experience physical, chemical and chemical-physical degradations such as fatigue, corrosion and stress-corrosion cracking under. Also, mechanical parts such as diesel engines, batteries systems and AIP systems will deteriorate. These degradations will come up only under the actual operation conditions. For example, if there is no repeated surfacing-submerging, the fatigue of the hull caused by repeated application and release of external stress is not experienced.<br /><br />It is said that the rate of operation of Soryu submarine is 80%. As operation period of Soryu is 24 years, actual operation period becomes ca. 19 years (=24 years x 0.8). In case of Collins submarine, the rate of operation obviously lower than that of Soryu. For 60% of the rate of operation and 30 years operation period, actual operation period becomes 18 years (=30 years x 0.6) which is nearly same as that of Soryu.<br /><br />We have better think not only increase in numbers of submarines but also improvement of the rate of operation.<br /><br />Regards<br />S<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com