tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post5029823637841134274..comments2024-03-28T21:57:32.099+11:00Comments on Submarine Matters & Australian Nuclear Weapons: Indian Company Signs Contract for Kilo Submarine Maintenance.Pete2http://www.blogger.com/profile/06134037393078707072noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-14006997627753704082015-07-27T21:31:25.157+10:002015-07-27T21:31:25.157+10:00Hi Anonymous [July 26, 2015 at 6:20 PM]
Thanks - ...Hi Anonymous [July 26, 2015 at 6:20 PM]<br /><br />Thanks - more great material for an article I'll write this week. <br /><br />I'd settle for a mast-mounted 30mm cannon or even a 20 mm cannon and a missile launcher to shoot down pesky magpies - magpie pacification program https://youtu.be/qoaEBb4IN4Q<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-71119540305122878922015-07-27T21:21:20.977+10:002015-07-27T21:21:20.977+10:00Hi Anonymous [at July 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM]
More g...Hi Anonymous [at July 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM]<br /><br />More great material for an article I'll write this week. <br /><br />If only I had the cash I'd buy "a roaming SUBSAM" to deter pesky swooping magpies that are just too vicious here in Australia https://youtu.be/MhW9vpB6lGQ<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-26921956795264894582015-07-26T18:20:54.996+10:002015-07-26T18:20:54.996+10:00In addition to the Muraena mast-mounted 30mm canno...In addition to the Muraena mast-mounted 30mm cannon which, presumably, would be <br />mounted on this modular mast system (or something like it):<br /><br />http://www.gabler-maschinenbau.de/files/triple_m.pdf<br /><br /><br />There's also this:<br /><br />http://www.industrytap.com/have-you-seen-everything-littoral-combat-sub-shallow-water/6727<br /><br /><br />Quote:<br /><br />"Two mast mounted weapon systems, a 20 mm cannon and a missile launcher including <br />antiaircraft self-defense protect the sub and make it lethal."<br /><br /><br /><br />Mast-mounted submarine cannons seem even more questionable than Sub-launched SAMs. <br />Are they really such a good idea?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-14477893073162550562015-07-26T16:53:19.585+10:002015-07-26T16:53:19.585+10:00Hello Mr. Coates!
In addition to the Sub-launched...Hello Mr. Coates!<br /><br />In addition to the Sub-launched Mistral (Mast-Mounted) that you mentioned, the <br />French also are working on a torpedo-tube-launched MICA:<br /><br />http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/1100-a3sm-a-true-game-changer-for-submarines-self-defence-against-threats-from-the-sky.html<br /><br />Quote:<br /><br />"The underwater vehicle version comprises a torpedo-like capsule (the VSM) <br />containing a medium-range (20 km) Mica missile that is tube-launchable at any <br />depth. The capsule is similar to the type developed for submarine-launched SM 39 <br />Exocet anti-ship missiles, a proven system which exists for 35 years now. The <br />missile is based on VL Mica (launched from surface vessels) which has already been <br />procured by several navies."<br /><br />You can see a video of it here:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv9j-hbUHt4<br /><br /><br />=======================================================<br /><br /><br />Also according to the article on SUBSAMS at:<br /><br />http://www.g2mil.com/subam.htm<br /><br />"The idea was tested in the 1980's using SEACAT missiles."<br /><br />A few more quotes from the article:<br /><br />"Submariners know when anti-submarine aircraft are searching nearby but they cannot <br />get a precise fix. What they need is a missile that can acquire its own target, <br />like the AMRAAM air-to-air missile, which uses an internal radar. The BGM-109 <br />submarine-launched Tomahawk missile (below) could carry a 335 lb AMRAAM instead of <br />a 1000 lb warhead. A SUBSAM would have two stages, like the SUBROC missile, fired <br />straight up and then level off to fly a pre-programmed search pattern over the <br />submarine while the AMRAAM operates in the seek mode looking for airborne targets <br />for up to an hour. Once a target is detected, the AMRAAM fires and breaks away from <br />the cruise missile to pursue the aircraft."<br /><br />"a roaming SUBSAM should keep aircraft away for up to an hour as it flies an <br />8-track pattern over the area until its fuel is depleted. Meanwhile, the submarine <br />has plenty of time to escape. On the other hand, inexperienced or aggressive <br />anti-submarine pilots may continue their hunt after they see the cruise missile fly <br />away, and face death a few minutes later as the SUBSAM returns during its <br />pre-programmed search pattern. <br /><br /> SUBSAMs may also be used offensively against airbases. A Tomahawk missile <br />striking an airbase may damage aircraft on the ground with luck. However, a SUBSAM <br />flying a pattern over a busy airbase may find something to shoot down. They may <br />also be fired at distant aircraft carriers while attacking a fleet with anti-ship <br />missiles to down aircraft and distract fighter pilots as they try to shoot-down the <br />incoming anti-ship missiles."<br /><br /><br />An interesting idea.<br /><br /><br />==========================================================<br /><br /><br />Of course, if Sub-launched SAMs aren't exotic enough for you, there's always the <br />mast-mounted Submarine cannon:<br /><br />http://dev.defense-update.com/20070327_muraena.html<br /><br />:)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-55490582957952118332015-07-26T15:34:59.679+10:002015-07-26T15:34:59.679+10:00Hi Anonymous [at July 25, 2015 at 4:36 AM]
Looks ...Hi Anonymous [at July 25, 2015 at 4:36 AM]<br /><br />Looks like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphem_(missile) was very much a German and French project.<br /><br />I'll include these possible SLAM missiles in a future article.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-31265103121428872732015-07-25T04:36:22.199+10:002015-07-25T04:36:22.199+10:00The French were also working on a missile called P...The French were also working on a missile called Polyphem, including a Submarine-<br />launched version called Triton:<br /><br />http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/polyphem-fibre-guided-missile-shows-pin-point-accuracy-4471/<br /><br />Quote:<br /><br />"A submarine-borne configuration would for the first time give submarines the <br />capability of defending themselves against ASW helicopters."<br /><br /><br />But this program was cancelled.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-2139330961545175532015-07-24T18:06:48.285+10:002015-07-24T18:06:48.285+10:00Hi Anonymous [at July 24, 2015 at 2:36 AM]
As wel...Hi Anonymous [at July 24, 2015 at 2:36 AM]<br /><br />As well as having systems for submerged firing of SAMs (or SLAMs) Kilo's and other SSKs could indeed have MANPAD SAMs handy if caught on the surface. <br /><br />Also the French have considered a submarine launched Mistral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistral_(missile)#Submarine_Air_Defence_Weapon - even fired from the mast in this gripping Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIGl42ELB_A .<br /><br />Thanks for all those links and your descriptions. I'll turn them into a future post. <br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-4795942433374419082015-07-24T17:50:38.516+10:002015-07-24T17:50:38.516+10:00Hi S
International Law is of course important.
...Hi S<br /><br />International Law is of course important. <br /><br />But when a country does not respect International Law what can countries do? For example China is turning South China Sea islands (it doesn't own) into air and sea bases.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-86503716833625069102015-07-24T02:36:43.486+10:002015-07-24T02:36:43.486+10:00Hello Mr. Coates:
I wasn't sure if the Kilo&#...Hello Mr. Coates:<br /><br />I wasn't sure if the Kilo's SAMs consisted of a shoulder launcher kept in the Sub's <br />arms locker, or if they were were mast-mounted, like the old Blowpipe-based SLAM <br />(Submarine Launched Airflight Missile) system:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowpipe_(missile)<br /><br /><br />The sub-launched SAM concept has been around for awhile, but navies have never been <br />too keen on the idea, since launching one would give away the Sub's location.<br /><br />Nonetheless, the idea resurfaces from time to time (pun intended) .....<br /><br />For awhile, the USN was interested in using the SIAM (Self-Initiated Anti-Aircraft <br />Missile) from submarines. This was known as SUBADS (Submarine Air-Defense System):<br /><br />http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/siam.html<br /><br /><br />More recently, the USN has tested the AIM-9X for this role:<br /><br />http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/issue_29/downlink4.html<br /><br /><br />Meanwhile, Germany has been working on a Sub-launched SAM called IDAS (Interactive <br />Defence and Attack System for Submarines):<br /><br />http://www.janes.com/article/48478/germany-offers-participation-in-idas-to-turkey<br /><br /><br />Weapon systems like this may be part of the reason why the USN wants its P-8 <br />aircraft to stay at high altitudes while sub-hunting. <br /><br />Note that the USN's P-8s lack a Magnetic Anamoly Detector (MAD) in the tail.<br /><br />If the USN does decide MAD is necessary, it will probably be deployed on a small <br />UAV, so that the P-8 can hunt subs magnetically while staying above the envelope of <br />small SAM systems:<br /><br />http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2015/01/bae-subhunting-drone.html<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-62437575578065575992015-07-24T01:06:45.870+10:002015-07-24T01:06:45.870+10:00Hi Pete
Answer 1 Australia, India, Japan, Russia,...Hi Pete<br /><br />Answer 1 Australia, India, Japan, Russia, Canada and USA should corporate to prevent China from committing silly behaviors. International conflicts should be solved by the International Law, not by war. We must respect rule of the International Law.<br /><br />Answer 2 No country wants to get involved troubles between China and Japan. Japan and China should try to fix problem in the framework of the International Law.<br /><br />Answer 3 We never waive our existing national interests. For example, if China requests Russia to share the Arctic Sea, Russian will become furious.<br /><br />Regards<br />S<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-16924432282642820822015-07-23T21:41:10.708+10:002015-07-23T21:41:10.708+10:00Hi S
Certainly there are common interests between...Hi S<br /><br />Certainly there are common interests between Australia, India, Japan, Russia, Canada and USA that China does not not flex its military muscle against international and regional interests.<br /><br />One major issue is "What acts by China should be opposed?"<br /><br />1. If China blocks international airspace or sea area to shipping/aircraft then countries should oppose that. But should countries go to the extreme of war?<br /><br />2. If China takes over a small sea area with known oil reserves under it AND Japan also claims that area - Should countries fight China over oil that is not yet being extracted?<br /><br />3. As China grows in economic power does it deserve more sea space? <br /><br />Yes I agree that Vietnamese subs from Russia or from other countries are beneficial for the West if these subs are containing and deterring Chinese power.<br /><br />Regards <br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-36189917796413534542015-07-23T21:27:01.826+10:002015-07-23T21:27:01.826+10:00Hi Anonymous [at July 22, 2015 at 4:39 PM]
I thin...Hi Anonymous [at July 22, 2015 at 4:39 PM]<br /><br />I think the Kilo captain would want to deploy Strela-3 or Igla SAMs while the Kilo is submerged - hence less vulnerable to an attacking aircraft or helicopter. <br /><br />http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/kilo877/ indicates "The submarine has a launcher for eight Strela-3 or Igla surface-to-air missiles." <br /><br />So I think the Kilos SAMs might be in a pod placed in one of the torpedo tubes. Once each missile is ejected (gas pressure or piston) then each SAM rises to the surface in a small pod then a one or two stage launch process ignites the rocket motor. <br /><br />Some readers would have a more certain idea.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-77255606957266249992015-07-23T21:08:57.023+10:002015-07-23T21:08:57.023+10:00Hi Nicky
It is possible India could build Kilos. ...Hi Nicky<br /><br />It is possible India could build Kilos. <br /><br />However given India wants AIP and VLS in the 6 Project 75(I) future subs Russia would need to do a great deal of design and testing to incorporate these new additions. <br /><br />Every part of the Kilo (it could be renamed "Amur") would need to be altered and rebalanced.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-61942682237794818182015-07-22T22:36:44.734+10:002015-07-22T22:36:44.734+10:00Hi Pete
Australia, India, Japan, Russia, Canada a...Hi Pete<br /><br />Australia, India, Japan, Russia, Canada and USA have strong interests on oceans: i) South Pacific Ocean, Indian Ocean and Southern Sea for Australia, ii) Indian Ocean for India, iii) Northern/East Pacific Oceans and East China Sea for Japan, iv) Northern Pacific Ocean and for Arctic Sea for Russia and Canada, v) Whole Pacific Ocean and Arctic Sea for USA. These countries have respected other’s interests after World War II, this is international order. But, now China is challenging this order. China is trying to share Whole Pacific Ocean with USA, and sends group of ships and submarines to Arctic Sea and Indian Ocean, respectively. And it is obvious that China will request new interest in Southern Sea. As China is becoming very strong, we should corporate together to defend our existing interests. So purchasing Russian submarine by Viet Nam or India is not against our national interests. Putin’s behaviors in East Europe are heavily criticized, but that is Europe’ issue which European and Russian should overcome. If Asia has same trouble with China, no European Countries helps us at all. I deeply commiserate with MH17 victims and their family/friends.<br /><br />Regards <br />S<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-35528221888327820312015-07-22T16:39:35.157+10:002015-07-22T16:39:35.157+10:00Can the Kilo's Surface-To-Air Missiles be fire...Can the Kilo's Surface-To-Air Missiles be fired while submerged?<br /><br />If so, then the USN has good reason to keep its P-8 aircraft at high altitude while sub-hunting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-14242303334232172242015-07-22T16:00:45.242+10:002015-07-22T16:00:45.242+10:00Hi Pete,
What I think Russia is trying to do is ma...Hi Pete,<br />What I think Russia is trying to do is make India their Regional hub for Kilo Submarines and even allow India to License manufacture and produce Kilo class Submarines.Nickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15318590507921043958noreply@blogger.com