March 11, 2022

A Nuclear Weapon Triad for Australia

On May 10, 2025, one "BOB" asked :

Whats your thoughts on the Nuclear weapons Conundrum ?

Or the potential of Australia creating a TRIAD of delivery systems?

ie Ground: Silo ICBM, Air: Cruise Missile/Bomb, Naval: Cruise Missile. 

The entire idea of spending huge sums of money on Nuclear submarines with only conventional weapons when the PRC has & Indonesia will eventually surpass Australia Economically/Militarily seems to me atleast insane. 

Whats the point in torpedoing enemy shipping or launching a dozen cruise missiles when the PRC could target fleet base East or West (or other population center) with nuclear weapons that Australia wont know have been launched until they impact?

Pete's Response

If you offered to pay my I could have written the response below, much sooner :)

Re a "Nuclear weapons Conundrum". Cunundrum being "a confusing and difficult problem or question." This can be seen in many ways, eg. Nuclear weapons: 

-  are so destructive their use would be unthinkable. So they should not be used in war

-  are a major means of deterrence. But if they need to be used they have failed to deter

-  there is no such thing as a "limited nuclear war" because one or both sides will choose to escalate to more destructive nuclear weapons

-  are never truly "low yield" because they are much more destructive than conventional weapons 

-  legal nuclear weapons powers, the "haves" under the NPT have never accepted the Treaty's central requirement that they fully disarm, and 

-  many other conundrums.

NUCLEAR TRIAD

On Australia building a Nuclear Triad. All the potential delivery platforms now utilise nuclear armed cruise or ballistiuc missiles. The three platforms of the Triad are:

1.  Mobile trucks, trains or fixed ground silos. Australia has a landmass large enough for fixed silos. The necessary central location might be just south of Alice Springs, with the low population and relatively isolated and cheap land. Expect a $2 Billion minimum program cost for each ICBM over its 30 year life.

2.  The second delivery platform is aircraft launching cruise or ballistic missiles or (less likely) free fall bombs. Dedicated bomber aircraft would likely be too expensive. Australia's F-35A fighter-bombers, with inflight refueling, might be appropriate platforms.

3.  Given a submarine's ability to hide it is the preferred choice to launch nuclear missiles in a first strike and particularly a second strike. This second strike suitability make submarines the best nuclear deterrent platform. This is why all of the big five nuclear "haves" (+ India)  are spending untold $Billions to build SSBN fleets and the SSNs to protect them. 

Australia's Collins submarines, or more appropriately future nuclear propelled submarines, could fire nuclear armed Tomahawk cruise missiles horizontally or future cruise horizontally using their torpedo tubes. Particularly if Australia buys US Virginia Block V or future Block VI nuclear subs their vertical launch silos can take at least 6 Polaris 10 metre tall sized future SLBMs. If each SLBM has 3 MIRVsthat means 18 nuclear warheads per future Australian submarine. These future subs would then not be SSNs, but small SSBNs, nicknamed "Baby Boomers". 

Australia, in the Collins subs, already has the US Nuclear Propelled Submarine Combat System known as the AN/BYG-1 which could be updated for nuclear tipped cruise or (less likely) ballistic missiles. This Combat System includes US integrated sensors, databases, and weapons and will be used for Australia's future nuclear propelled submarines. 

If Australia claims a Collins sub may have on board (say) 6 x Tomahawk cruise missiles  for land attack uses, this is a very expensive platform to launch only 6 x 500kg conventional warheads, in total. The process of launching these missiles into the atmosphere may also attract unwanted attention from anti-submarine sensors (eg. satellites with infrared sensors). This may lead to a Collins being rapidly destroyed. Making the warheads "special" (not meaning chemical or biological warheads, but nuclear warheads) alone makes sense. 

If the Tomahawks are seen as anti-ship missiles, this is another issue, with conventional warheads making sense.

Not only the US, but Israel and South Korea, are looking at options for nuclear tipped cruise, hypersonic and small ballistic missiles that might one day be well adapted for Australian use.

It might take Australia years to build usable nuclear weapons, but in a rush we might borrow them, perhaps under AUKUS, from the US. A good model is the arrangement some NATO countries have with the US. As Wiki explains :

"Nuclear sharing is a concept in NATO's policy of nuclear deterrence, which involves member countries, without nuclear weapons of their own in the planning, for the use of nuclear weapons by NATO. In particular, it provides for the armed forces of those countries to be involved in delivering nuclear weapons in the event of their use.

As part of nuclear sharing, the participating countries carry out consultations and make common decisions on nuclear weapons policy, maintain technical equipment (notably nuclear-capable airplanes) required for the use of nuclear weapons and store nuclear weapons on their territory. In case of war, the United States told NATO allies the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) would no longer be controlling."

All of this nuclear discussion is very much about an Australian deterrent against China. However, through such a 2+ decade Australian nuclear process our near northern neighbour, Indonesia, wouldn't lie idle. Indonesia would be looking at its own nuclear propelled, nuclear armed submarine options.

10 comments:

  1. Great response Pete!

    There are, as you say, many conundrums with nuclear weapons.

    Although it would pivot on the underlying strategy/philosophy of usage (Eg no first use, etc) I strongly doubt the Aussie public would accept them. Power maybe, but weapons, no. Not unless there is some dramatic change in the status quo.

    Wary we should be be of China new belligerence, but also mindful that their primary, external, military preoccupation is Taiwan, with Himalayas as a distant second. China may seek economic dominance over Aus, which also should be firmly resisted, but I sincerely doubt there is any appetite to take that to occupation interest. This is not so much the case for Korea or Japan, who are near neighbours with long and troubled relations with China.

    Aus deploying nukes would likely mainly incentivise Indonesia et al to do same, which would be counterproductive: Aus should be working harder at building bridges there than try to make new enemies.

    Ultimately if Aus got sucked into a conflict where the opponents started flinging nukes at Sydney and Perth, well then its game over anyway, irrespective if Aus has them too.

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  2. I share Pete's concern with nuclear weapons. There are multiple problems - nuclear proliferation, cost and credibility of the deterrent.

    The proliferation risk is obvious. Many of our neighbours would follow suite. The more countries with nuclear weapons, the greater risk that one might be used by mistake.

    Senior RN officers have questioned the value of nukes as a deterrent, pointing out that their use would be so morally objectionable that they might not in practice get used. A larger number of conventionally armed ships/subs is a better value purchase.
    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/counting-the-costs-of-an-independent-nuclear-deterrent/

    It is not an isolated view. Putin's strategy in Europe now is virtually a gamble that the post-cold war west is not prepared to use nukes even if a country of 40 million people is at stake. What chance someone using them to protect Australia?

    And the cost is so high that it could equal the cost of an SSN program. Four Dreadnought SSBNs is costing Britain twice as much as the Astute program. For the same price the Astute build could have run to 20 hulls. By comparison, SSNs (or even Collins) with Tomahawks can put a 400kg warhead on a building in any city within 300km of the Chinese coast.

    If Australia ever used a nuclear weapon, who would it be against? Which potential target would not fire nuclear missiles back at every Australian capital city the same day? Its not worth thinking about.

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  3. Small population that's the problem, his/her country needs for ever-increasing to 100 million, minimum, accepting your culture. All the rest will follow by accretion. Regards and Sabbat Shalom!

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  4. Thanks Clive [at Mar 12, 2022, 11:03:00 AM]

    The hithertoo unimaginable public acceptance of nuclear subs for Austalia (with their slow fission weapons grade HEU reactors) makes:

    1. fast fission weapons grade HEU weapons not so unimaginable.

    2. increasing Australian public fear of China taking over Taiwan, enforcing its 9-dash claim to the South China Sea and especially creating air/naval bases on debt trapped islands (East Timor, PNG, Solomons, Vanuatu and Fiji) in the arc of instability above Australia.

    3. Australia following nuclear weapons proliferation to South Korea and Japan given their fears of close by nuclear armed North Korea and China

    4. This is recalling several NATO countries: Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey, are hosting US nuclear weapons as part of NATO's nuclear sharing policy

    with this happening uncontroversally, with their publics' acceptance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

    Regards Pete

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  5. Hi Anonymous [at Mar 12, 2022, 5:14:00 PM]

    Yes there are many problems and arguments against an Australian nuclear proliferation/deterrent.

    I don't know whether "A larger number of conventionally armed ships/subs" would deter a Chinese navy which is already outbuilding the US in conventional Chinese ships/subs

    let alone China outbuilding slow-inefficient Australia's shipbuilding capacity.

    What is Australia mean't to do to get full value out of 8 nuclear subs? Such subs are halfway there to being useful new-class-of-small-nuclear-ballistic-missile SSBNs.

    Tomahawk cruise missiles are easily shot down by China - which could retaliate with hard to shoot down ballistic missiles.

    The best deterrent to a nuclear armed China is a nuclear deterrent, which is why India has nuclear armed.

    Regards Pete

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  6. Hi Oleg7700 [at Mar 12, 2022, 10:36:00 PM]

    Are you saying Australia's "Small population that's the problem, his/her country needs for ever-increasing to 100 million, minimum, accepting your culture. All the rest will follow by accretion."

    Even little Israel, with less than ten million people, has a nuclear Triad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

    Why?

    And this is even though Israel could rely on a US nuclear umbrella from its close US ally.

    Regards Pete

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  7. Pete@Mar 14, 2022, 7:11:00 PM

    Even with nuclear weapons China always finds ways to heat things to just below the threshold and cause incessant trouble as a tactic to keep India off balance. (The yes minister character rosenblum's series of posers to Hacker being relevant today).

    As to the nine dash line, it is already enforced brutally. territorial irredentism is a millennium old mental illness in Beijing.

    As the US contrives to put itself into terminal decline, the old pattern of great power politics will play out, SSNs or no SSNs.

    In another 5-10 years China will have enough muscle to enforce a Monroe doctrine in the first island chain. As an Indian, I don't want them strong, but when foreign minister Wang Yi asks who gave the US the right to have a Monroe doctrine whilst roaming in other nations backyards and causing chaos, I have to grudgingly admit, he has a point on US hypocrisy.

    PS: The most sickening bit about the Ukraine crisis is not only that it was visible since 2000, the worst crime was the US/West leading the Ukrainians up the garden path and leave them hanging knowing Putin is a ruthless butcher. Then they have the temerity to scream blue murder and run a propaganda campaign the Kremlin could be proud of. Feels sad to see innocents die as usual... what did they expect after Georgia 2008 and Crimea 2014? An IR 101 textbook on realist geopolitics would have predicted this scenario chapter and verse (Dr. mearsheimer actually did so in 2015 to the T). we may not like it, but living next to a gorilla always entails costs.

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  8. Hi GhalibKabir [at Mar 14, 2022, 9:29:00 PM]

    I think Russia's vicious invasion of Ukraine is all Russia's and its dictator Putin's fault.

    There is no moral equivalence even if China and India are oddly associated in remaining neutral or actually supporting Russia.

    India may need to revise its pro-Russia, so-called "non-aligned" stance.

    There is no justified blame over Ukraine that can be aimed at the West, EU or NATO.

    In talking US Monroe Doctrine one may as well blame the UK and France for having Empires 50+ years ago. In any case China is gradually encroaching in Latin America.

    India has its own recent problems, noting:

    - https://www.brecorder.com/news/40160317/pakistan-demands-joint-probe-from-india-over-accidental-missile-fire

    and

    - https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/934333-two-indians-held-in-nepal-for-selling-n-material

    Regards Pete

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  9. Not being rude mate, just healthy disagreement.(just making it clear)

    Not justifying Ukraine war, that is clear and it lays at Russia's feet.

    But, there is justified blame against the west as there is no rhyme or reason to put missiles on the Russian border..sauce for the goose and all that. The west led Ukraine up the primrose path and needlessly used NATO as a pointless inflammatory tool. Realist politics clearly set out the next steps. I am sorry, but Great power politics are brutal and have always had their own set of rules, as bitter as it might sound and as unsavoury as it is. Denying reality doesn't make it go away. Right now, the US is the one roaming in everyone's backyards and indulging in hypocritical sermons. So they get the blame today.

    The dangerous people running the US state department should read the 1946 British memo on UN formation related deliberations. It lays out to the T how 'Great Powers' will only praise 'moral precepts' when it aligns with their interest. The 'claim to exceptionalism' has caused more damage in the last 50 years than benefits. Realist politics alas has not much use for moral relativism though I think it does have its uses.

    Now, to your points on India,

    I am sure you know missile upgrades and tests are not fault free? An UK trident missile went off track just a few weeks ago, does UK have a problem then? I can point to so much data on how testing is not fault free and is quite risky infact. the pakistanis are as usual trying to milk it for all they can and are being ignored as always.

    Also yellowcake trade is a surprisingly common issue as many of the idiots dont understand that it is virtually useless unless it goes into an ENR facility. There are some abandoned mines in north central India and people think they can make money and 100% they get disappointed and in many cases also get a jail term ;)... all these cuties at these 'think tanks' are as usual busy riding their high horses shaking fingers at India. Tell them to ask how much the IAEA has deigned to act and you will see their 'concerns' melt away.

    The pakistanis keep running these news campaigns as they have been ignored in their attempts at false equivalence with India and are walking around with a begging bowl to Beijing and Riyadh alternately. As I always say, that is just twitter/social media noise.

    PS: India has no dog in the hunt and doesn't have the marie antoinette luxury of eating 'expensive crude and gas'like the west. Also People in India remember those dark days of 1955-1975 when the US crassly insulted, bullied and humiliated India while arming Pakistan. Realist politics again, when the world effectively tells India to go fly a kite in Kashmir despite visible hindu genocide and terrorism, it is Russia which helped India over and over. Also, did the US hold itself to the same standard in Iraq, Yemen, Syria? If Whataboutery is fair game, then unfortunate there is plenty to go around :(

    My sympathies are with the Ukrainians, but as any IR professor teaching geopolitics 101 would teach over and over, 'living next to gorilla entails costs as it has for Cuba and Venezuela and it is the same for Ukraine'. Empire blaming is irrelevant as it is not the examples but the concept that is static, namely Great power geopolitics.

    Wishing you well Pete.

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  10. Hi GhalibKabir [Mar 15, 2022, 5:40:00 PM]

    Mate. Sometimes I feel Pakistan is not your favorite country.

    Agreed - every great/super power supports moral relativism if the circumstances favor that power.

    However it is an unusual escalation with Putin talking a higher Russian nuclear weapon status in the context of threatening Russian military retaliation against Western economic sanctions.

    Russia never recognised Ukraine's democratic right to choose whether Ukraine could join the EU and NATO.

    Methinks, rising Chinese political and economic power in Latin America is actually threatening US assumptions of continued Monroe Doctrine "exceptionalism".

    Its difficult to claim that a ballistic missile India misfired into its nuclear armed enemy, Pakistan's land-territory, https://www.brecorder.com/news/40160317/pakistan-demands-joint-probe-from-india-over-accidental-missile-fire

    is equivalent to a UK SSBN firing a UK/US Trident missile which range safety controllers destroyed off the coast of Florida (not even reaching land) https://news.usni.org/2017/01/25/royal-navy-trident-missile-malfunction-prompts-claims-u-k-government-cover

    Funnily enough, the semi-processed Uranium "yellowcake" that Indian smugglers tried to sell to Nepalese might have normally found its way to China, for a profitable markup https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/934333-two-indians-held-in-nepal-for-selling-n-material

    Admit it, you secretly admire Imran Khan's greater bowling skills over Modi's indifferent batting record https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imran_Khan

    I think we can agree, if superpowers always acted morally they wouldn't be powerful.

    Warm Regards

    Pete

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