KRI Nanggala's oxygen runout time has passed (at 3am in Jakarta, Indonesia time (4am in Bali. Indonesia) Saturday 24 April 2021. The lack of oxygen on KRI Nanggala (402) (if it is intact on the seafloor) means survivors are highly unlikely.
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Submarine Matters' special Southeast Asia correspondent, "Shawn C" advised just over 5 hours ago:
"No seismic activity [that could have been caused by KRI Nangalla imploding at extreme depth] was detected around the time of Nanggala’s disappearance.
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Furthemore former US submariner (sonar specialist) Sub Brief (here and above) suspects worn seals and pipes may have allowed seawater into the 40-41 year old Nanggala.
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PETE COMMENT
If KRI Nangalla had its periscope just above the sea surface - this may have coincided with Nanggala's snorkel also being deployed on the surface. If Nanggala was "snorting" that means sucking in air for the diesel engines and crew, then expelling carbon dioxide and smoke (poisonous carbon monoxide) through the snorkel. A snorkel failure to expel the carbon dioxide and monoxide could gradually poison the air in Nanggala, putting the crew to sleep.
Alternatively, for the very (41 year) old Nanggala a equipment failure in the shape of a blockage in the snorkel mast, with the diesels still running could have caused a rapid evacuation of breathable air in the sub - very quickly killing the crew - as happened with Chinese Ming-class submarine Number 361 in 2003.
Another potential snorkel problem is seawater coming down the snorkel into Nanggala. Seawater could have entered the snorkel, as in Argentina's ARA San Juan, lost in 2017. Seawater gushing through the snorkel down to Nanggala's 100s tonnes of lead-acid Batteries could cause a release of poisonous, highly flammable, hydrogen gas. It is this that could have caused electrical failure - as suspected by the Indonesian Navy. No electrical power could have prevented surfacing, prevented radio transmissions and prevented emergency oxygen supplies being provided to the crew.
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Here is the naval hymn for submariners in memory of KRI Nanggala's crew.
Peter Coates
Director, Submarine Matters
Reporting to Australia and the US.
It is clear from the last Indonesian military press conference that the objects attributed to the KRI Panggala 402 were found over a number of days in the area of her sinking.
ReplyDeleteWe may only know could have happened once this incident has been analysed and the wreck surveyed, but it seems that the Indonesian Navy already knew, prior to Saturday's press conference, that she was already lost, as parts from the submarine's torpedo room were recovered.
As I mentioned previously, no seismic activity over 2 on the Richter scale was registered, but that doesn't mean that such an event didn't happen, and if that's the case I'm wondering why such a loud sound (hull imploding or cracking when the submarine hit bottom) wasn't picked up by shipboard sensors of ships in the exercise area.
Note that the original "A total of 49 crew members, one ship commander and three weapons specialists were on board the submarine" is incorrect. Its 49 crew members, three weapons specialists, and Colonel Harry Setiawan, the commander of Indonesian submarine forces.
KRI Naggala-402 - forever on patrol
Hi Pete
ReplyDeleteI want to add my condolences to the families of those who lost their lives at KRI Naggala, and to the entire submariner family.
And also ask a question, a submarine running on AIP can stay submerged for about 2 or 3 weeks. During this period, is it necessary to snorting to renew the air inside the submarine? Is this also the case with nuclear submarines?
Hi Anonymus [at Apr 25, 2021, 6:38:00 PM]
ReplyDeleteYour condolences to the families of those who lost their lives at KRI Naggala, will have now been appreciated by Indonesians who look at Submarine Matters. That includes main naval personnel from Indonesian Navy HQs at Jakarta and Surabaya).
Re: "A submarine running on AIP can stay submerged for about 2 or 3 weeks. During this period, is it necessary to snorting to renew the air inside the submarine? Is this also the case with nuclear submarines?"
A conventional, diesel-electric submarines on AIP, battery or both will be fully submerged - so not snorting.
Conventional and nuclear subs renew the Oxygen component of air inside the subs in similar ways:
- for Conventional, see https://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/engines-equipment/submarine2.htm :
"Oxygen is supplied either from pressurized tanks, an oxygen generator (which can form oxygen from the electrolysis of water [less likely on conventional - nuclear sub would have much more power for Electrolysis]) or some sort of "oxygen canister" that releases oxygen by a very hot chemical reaction.
Oxygen is either released continuously by a computerized system that senses the percentage of oxygen in the air, or it is released in batches periodically through the day..
Carbon dioxide removal using "scrubbers." and "moisture can be removed by a dehumidifier or by chemicals. This prevents it from condensing on the walls and equipment inside the ship...Gases such as carbon monoxide or hydrogen, which are generated by equipment and cigarette smoke, can be removed by burners. Finally, filters are used to remove particulates, dirt and dust from the air."
- Nuclear subs may use many/most of the above conventional submarine equipment/processes and have much more power/electricity available for Electrolysis see https://www.explainthatstuff.com/submarines.html#:~:text=The%20nuclear%20engine%20provides%20warmth,carbon%20dioxide%20from%20the%20air. "It makes oxygen for people to breathe using electrolysis to chemically separate molecules of water (turning H2O into H2 and O2) and it scrubs unwanted carbon dioxide from the air."
Regards
Pete
Pete, I appreciated your comment and analysis for Nanggala but I think you need to make one correction as most Indonesians don’t like to call “Indon” as that have “another” meaning to us and you need to know that!
ReplyDeleteHi Shawn C
ReplyDeleteYou probably noted that I already said, on Apr 23, 2021, 2:52:00 PM, at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2021/04/indonesian-submarine-nanggala-likely.html?showComment=1619155356323#c2360925087550491845
"It could be a loud implosion (thought to be Nanggala) was heard by Indonesian and US sensors between 3am and 4.30am on April 21. This would mean the Indonesian Navy knows Nangalla is no more - making all the search emergency activity more to give Indonesians hope than anything else."
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So you are later correct, on Apr 25, 2021, 12:57:00 AM in reiterating above - "but it seems that the Indonesian Navy already knew, prior to Saturday's press conference, that she was already lost"
And it is important that you have added the significant info that "parts from the submarine's torpedo room were recovered."
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I'll now claim first mention rights for the following :)
I think that either:
- the Indonesian Navy DID notice an implosion or breakup of Nanggala on April 21st (Indonesian time), using the passive sonar sensors of the Indonesian naval surface ships known to be in Nanggala's test area, but it was a face safer (that any navy would have done) to launch a search and rescure exercise for a crew already known to be gone
AND/OR
- (rather than surface ship sensors) it was Indonesian fixed undersea sonar arrays/microphones that picked up implosion/breakup noises but the Indonesian Navy wished to SAVE SOME FACE by embarking on the search process AND ALSO there is secrecy applying to the existence of such fixed undersea sensors
AND/OR
- it was the "US Fish Hook Undersea Defence Line" (an undersea sonar sensor array) already identified by Submarine Matters, on September 4, 2015, at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2015/09/how-to-trap-chinese-dragon-seawebs.html that (being only about 50km from where Nanggala sunk) would have clearly picked up Nanggala's implosion/breakup noises in real time at April 21 (Indonesian time).
The US Navy would have then very likely advised the Indonesian Navy straight away.
But it was still 3 days before the Indonesian Navy admitted Nanggala's destruction to the Indonesian public.
Regards
Pete
Thanks Earbay [at Apr 26, 2021, 12:43:00 PM]
ReplyDeleteFor kindly telling me.
I have now republished the comment [date/time Apr 26, 2021, 6:22:00 PM] without the offending word.
Such a sad time :(
Pete
Thank you Pete for your fast response and understanding to republished your comment, yess All of us Indonesians express our deep sorrow over this tragedy, especially to the families of the submarine crew.
DeleteThe lastest information last night from Indonesian Navy Chief of Staff that the crew were not to blame for the accident and that the submarine did not experience a blackout, blaming “forces of nature” and The KRI Nanggala is divided into three parts, the hull of the ship, the stern of the ship, and the main parts are all separated, with the main part found cracked, there are scattered parts of the submarine and its interior in the water.