At last some worthwhile submarine news.
Italy is buying and will probably do the building of what I think are the world's first 4 submarines that combine AIP and Lithium-ion Batteries.
These will be Type U212 NFS (for Near Future Submarine) Todaro Class Batch-III submarines.
AIP and Lithium Batteries will probably allow them to fully submerge longer than any other "conventional" (diesel-electric) submarines.
See a good description with a cutaway diagram at https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/12/italys-new-type-u212-nfs-submarine-program-moving-forward-with-occar/
Absolutely, the building of 2+2 U212 NFS will happen in Italy by Fincantieri in its La Spezia's shipyard; where the other four U212A submarines have been already built.
ReplyDeleteIt's worth noting that the U212 NFS is based on U212A design whose Background Information have been granted, through an Industrial Cooperation Agreement, by the German Design Authority (tKMS) to Fincantieri Spa for the construction in Italy of the NFS submarines for the Italian Navy.
Hi Giovanni Martinelli
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments - that "the building of 2+2 U212 NFS will happen in Italy by Fincantieri in its La Spezia's shipyard"
and
"the U212 NFS is based on U212A design whose Background Information have been granted, through an Industrial Cooperation Agreement, by the German Design Authority (tKMS) to Fincantieri Spa for the construction in Italy of the NFS submarines for the Italian Navy."
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Further to your comments https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/07/22/italy-matches-french-naval-tie-up-with-german-sub-partnership/ of July 22, 2019 indicated:
"Italy’s long-standing cooperation with Germany’s naval industry to build submarines is picking up speed with news that Fincantieri will build four more U-212 submarines for the Italian Navy under license from Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems.
With four [Todaro U-212s] already in service, that will bring to a total of eight the U-212 boats Italy has built in partnership with Germany, and the [NFS] batch is expected to be an updated version."
"Known as the U-212A Near Future Submarine, or NFS, the next four subs will feature a large amount of new technology supplied by Italian industry, further blending Italian and German know-how..."
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COMMENT
It is interesting TKMS Germany is not using the Italian Lithium-ion Battery (LIB) technology YET. Maybe Germany is waiting to see how successful is the Italian integration of AIP and LIB U212A submarine technology is? This is with special attention to submarine at sea Operational Performance.
Alternatively I'm guessing TKMS, with Siemens, are developing their own LIB solution https://www.oceannews.com/news/defense/new-lithium-ion-batteries-for-submarines
to work with U-212 AIP (and the 1 x MTU-396 16V Diesel Engine of course)?
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
ReplyDeleteBy now, Germany and Italy are following different paths in the development of submarines.
Of course, for both, the starting project is the U21A.
But Italy is precisely developing its own NFS version, with the express purpose of better adapting it to its operational needs and making it a more "Italian" product(with theoretical possibilities also to export it ...)
While Germany is engaged with Norway in the U212CD (Common Design) program.
Thus, it can be considered a fact that there are differences; and so it will be more and more in the future.
Regards,
Giovanni
PS
Months ago, there was talk of an interest by Fincantieri to take over the submarine sector of TKMS.
Maybe in the future...
Hi Giovanni Martinelli
ReplyDeleteThanks for your December 14, 2020 at 3:41 AM comment.
I can see that, for the Type 212As, Italy and Germany have very different major vendors, component suppliers and perhaps, most importantly, differing Operational Environments.
Germany and Norway, with their future 212CDs will continue to operate in the very cold Baltic Sea and/or North Sea and Arctic ocean - so they need particular submarine characteristics.
Meanwhile Italy's Todaro class 212s and future 212NFS operate in the warm Mediterranean and maybe Red and Arabian seas.
"Fincantieri to take over the submarine sector of TKMS" sounds an intriguing possibility. I'll put in a bid to broker the deal - for a large fee, of course :)
Merry Chritmas
Pete
Hi Pete
ReplyDeleteObviously, there are different operating environments between Germany and Italy.
For example, the Italian Navy is trying to "enlarge" the Mediterranean, in the sense that it actually intends to operate in other seas as well; such as the Red Sea and the Arabian Sea (as you noticed before), the Gulf of Guinea and even the Indian/Pacific Oceans.
Maybe...
Furthermore, on the part of Fincantieri there is a desire to acquire national capabilities in the production of submarines.
As mentioned, also thinking about export ...
Merry Christmas too
Giovanni
Hi Giovanni
ReplyDeleteYour December 17, 2020 at 4:47 AM
Yes. If Italy/Fincantieri is thinking export to the Pacific Ocean (and even closer, Atlantic) then fellow NATO member Canada (bordering both those oceans) may be thinking of starting a submarine purchase process in the 2030s...
Also Portugal may be in a replacement submarine process by the late 30s, and may not necessarily want to buy from its neigbour, Spain.
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete
ReplyDelete[After correction]
In export of 212A from Fincantieri, its unique structure and intellectual property rights should be considered. As 212A mounts one diesel generator and has not center bulkhead [1], redundancy at failure of a diesel and safety at water leakage should be concerned. Key technologies such as floating deck, fuel cell system, arrangement of batteries, PERMASYN motor are patents of SIEMENS and TKMS.
[1] According to standard for submarine [2], pressure tight bulkheads including doors and equipment are requirement for submarine. Then, 212A without center bulkhead might be refused by some NAVYs.
[2]
RULES FOR CLASSIFICATION Naval vessels DNV GL
Part 4 Sub-surface ships Chapter 1 Submarines
3.3 Pressure hull
3.3.2 In addition, component drawings of the pressure hull equipment shall be submitted including: — entry and exit hatches
— door panels and door frames
— block flanges
— pressure hull wall penetrations and their arrangement incl. torpedo tubes
— pressure tight bulkheads including doors and equipment
— diver’s lockouts, if existing — escape trunks.
Regards
Hi Anonymous
ReplyDeleteThankyou for your corrected comment, which is now at December 31, 2020 at 11:03 AM.
I will turn it into an article early in the New Year.
Thankyou for all your comments in 2020.
Have a Happy 2021 for you and your family.
Cheers
Pete
Hi Anonymous
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments of December 31, 2020 at 11:03 AM.
I have turned your comments into the article “Italy would need Germany's OK to Export
Type 212 Submarines” of January 3, 2021
at https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2021/01/italy-would-need-germanys-permission-to.html
Regards
Pete