"Jive" (an ex-USN electronic warfare (sonar) specialist submariner through to the 2000s) here https://youtu.be/stoYRQKhKtQ and below
provides a briefing on India's nuclear submarine Arihant class/"Advanced Technology Vessel" project. From the video:
1:40 - Project 932 (for a submarine reactors and nuclear subs (SSBN and SSNs) began in the 1970s.
2:10 - in the early 1980s the top Russian military leadership announce and commence Transfer of Technology (ToT) of nuclear subs especially reactors to India.
3:00 as a technology and training demonstrator, Soviet Charlie-class SSGN, is leased to India for 4 years from 1987 being called INS Chakra I.
4:15 another demonstrator, a Russian Akula class SSN, is leased to India for 10 years from 2012, called INS Chakra II. At end of lease in 2022 it is expected India will buy it outright.
5:20 Jive is wrong in saying the keel of INS Arihant was laid down in "2009". 2009 was the year Arihant was launched - see here "July 26, 2009" and here. Meanwhile INS Arighat's keel was laid down 2011. Both "very short" for SSBNs, so have few meters/little space for missile compartments.
7:00 Bow of Arihant very similar to Kilo class, according to photos Jive presents. Jive then assumes Arihant has the bow of the design and size/beam of a diesel electric Kilo sub. Jive assumes Arihant therefore has 6 x 530mm torpedo tubes (capable of launching "Kalibr" [or Klub?] land attack SLCMs.
8:12 Jives assumes the Arihant has an USHUS-2 indigenous bow sonar system, based in Russian Rubicon-M
8:42 The sail and non (hull) penetrating masts (eg. photonic) etc. Non penetrating reduces flooding risks.
10:40 Arihant's ballistic missile capacity is minor, but a good start.
11:45 Combat system (Russian derived?) and steering/diving
13:50 Exterior. "INS Arihant at sea."
Jive concludes India developing several SSBNs and SLBM types is a "huge advance" done quickly and in line with non-proliferation treaties [except for proliferating the nuclear weapons? Noting some international reactions to 1998 nuclear tests.].
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Submarine Matters has numerous articles on Arihant, Arighat, submarine reactors, SLBMs and India's whole submarine fleet since 2009.
Considering neighbors like pakistan and china, I would take international criticisms about proliferation with a bucket of salt.
ReplyDeletePlus, any credibility vis a vis international criticisms on India became laughable when GWB shepherded arch proliferator China into the NSG in 2004 (despite knowing china supplied pakistan with n-bomb design, 35 kg WGU, ENR equipment like ring magnets and leaked missile technology to boot despite sanctimoniously claiming 'voluntary alignment' with MTCR standards)
India now has no choice as china is steadily making pakistan it's western theater's extended segment to 'box' India in.
I hope India shows spine and intent by MIRVing Agni-V ICBM and K-5 SLBM warheads to at least 3x100 kt or 4x80 kt. If I had my wish, I would go for a tritium boosted fission Pu-239 80-100 kt warhead 'salted' with cobalt or cobalt salted thermonuclear device if it is one warhead only.
PS: Nehru's alleged turning down of P-5 membership in the late 1940s, delay in n-testing decisions in the 50s and early 60s to 1974 etc. ensured India has no seat in the UNSC, has no NPT approved n-weapon state status, limited one way NSG membership and only recently has got MTCR membership.
Hi GhalibKabir said...
ReplyDelete@October 23, 2020 at 10:49 PM
Yes. I have no problem with India arming itself with nuclear weapons. This was with India's knowledge of China's high profile fission and thermonuclear tests in the 1960s and of Pakistan's interest in building nukes from the early 70s.
I had a bit of a problem with Jive's implication that because the US had little problem with a nuclear armed India that it was self-evident that all countries had no problem.
I'm wondering if China forced the pace of the NPT to occur after China's H-Bomb tests and before India was ready for India's 1974 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiling_Buddha test.
India may already have the ability to build 3 MIRVs but it is better politically to delay an announcement in order to reduce a Pak public clamour that there should be an ever increasing MIRV race with India. This may be part of India's nuclear weapons political deal with the US that India avoid most triumphalism on nuclear achievements. In a similar but more extreme vein the US tolerates Israel's nuclear arsenal as long as Israel doesn't publically acknowledge it.
I know Tritium is the fusion booster of choice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium#Tritium_in_hydrogen_bomb_secondaries but what does Cobalt do?
Pete
I think India is more likely MIRV ready in terms of latency (= screw driver away) and is keeping its trap shut as there is little to be gained through gloating. Strategic nuclear signalling is another issue and India's establishment are capable of such dealings (contrary to the shrill, boof headed, badgers quarreling in a sack type image given by India's 'media')
ReplyDeletepakistan already has been equipped with MIRV tech by china. So there is little to be gained by tom tomming. Test quietly, say nothing and equip the forces systematically even at a slow pace. pakistan will attack India again, there should be no illusions on that count.
Cobalt: Well the idea is to use Cobalt to make the targeted area unlivable for a decade plus time thereby making costs higher. However, After a bit of research I am afraid apparently Cobalt bombs are very poor in terms of efficiency and needed to be abandoned. So Tritium boosted Pu bombs based MIRVs it is.
PS: India is in mortal peril in the coming decades from internal and external threats. Water problems ( I am amazed at how clueless pakistan is considering it will have 400 million mostly fanatic and illiterate population by 2047 with big water scarcities), 40-50 million climate refugees from bangladesh, India's semitic religious minorities growing population once again leading to the same intolerant fanaticism of the past 1,000 years (I am afraid non-M and Non-C religious people will be massacred in some parts of India, an all too familiar occurrence on the sub-continent since 712 AD).
By 2047, I am afraid the folly of the 1947 Indian sub-continent partition on religious lines will be glaringly visible with yet another episodic evidence on how proselytizing religions have intractable issues co-existing with non-prosely... religions (South America to Africa to SE Asia are living testimonies to centuries of cultural and human genocides in the name of spreading the 'faith')....already reams of videos of Indian C and M clergy's open venom spreading against Hindu, Sikh and non-semitic faiths are available openly.
Hi GhalibKabir [your October 28, 2020 at 2:35 PM]
ReplyDeleteYes missiles without MIRVs are like Frenchmen without mistresses.
Any links on “pakistan already has been equipped with MIRV tech by china.”?
Agree. Beating the weapons’ drum is bad international PR.
Indeed Cobalt would depopulate many square miles for a decade making peaceful relations impossible for longer than otherwise. Agree that “cobalt bombs are very poor in terms of efficiency”.
Also one’s army would have great difficulty advancing into or occupying a cobalted area.
Long term irradiated cobalt in scarce water stocks would be unwelcome as well.
Might there be China-India tensions over the:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_River “flows through China (western Tibet)”
and
Gangotri Glacier, feeding the Ganges River https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganges ?
With water scarcity and conflict between the world’s 2 largest populations will come grain food scarcity and even more conflict.
Pete
Even worse Pete, China is already damming up the Brahmaputra/ Yarlung Tsangpo that is the lifeline of the rice baskets of NE India and Bangladesh.
ReplyDeletehttp://discipline.longnow.org/DISCIPLINE_footnotes/Tibet_Plateau.html
It is also planning to dam up the Sutlej near Himachal and also the Ganges tributary Karnali (20% flow to Ganges) besides damming up the Indus/Gar Tsangpo in 2006 (not used but it can be critical in the future)
6 major rivers flowin into the Indian sub-continent are under threat from china. Areas right from Peshawar to Delhi to Dhaka will be affected... the pakistani buffoons are preening themselves and enjoying India's discomfiture with China without realising what is in store for them...
After creating all this trouble the cretins in the CCP plenum yesterday had the gall to say 'the international situation is complicated' akin to an arsonist complaining about the wild fire after starting it himself.
Hi GhalibKabir [at October 30, 2020 at 3:11 PM]
ReplyDeleteThanks. Chinese daming of the Brahmaputra/Yarlung Tsangpo Riving is severe in more detail because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmaputra_River#Significance_to_people :
"The lives of many millions of Indian and Bangladeshi citizens are reliant on the Brahmaputra river. Its delta is home to 130 million people and 600 000 people live on the riverine islands. These people rely on the annual 'normal' flood to bring moisture and fresh sediments to the floodplain soils, hence providing the necessities for agricultural and marine farming. In fact, two of the three seasonal rice varieties (aus and aman) cannot survive without the floodwater. Furthermore, the fish caught both on the floodplain during flood season and from the many floodplain ponds are the main source of protein for many rural populations."
http://discipline.longnow.org/DISCIPLINE_footnotes/Tibet_Plateau.html presents a clear map of the river flows.
and thanks for
[China] "is also planning to dam up the Sutlej near Himachal and also the Ganges tributary Karnali (20% flow to Ganges) besides damming up the Indus/Gar Tsangpo in 2006 (not used but it can be critical in the future)
6 major rivers flowin into the Indian sub-continent are under threat from China. Areas right from Peshawar to Delhi to Dhaka will be affected..."
Pakistan will also be impacted by river damming by China.
pakistanis will be impacted sooner by their own crass stupidity with regards to misuse of water resources. Already the 2010 Indus floods have sounded the alarm in terms of long term destabilization of the glaciers in the northern himalayas and, after 2010, Tibet has warmed faster than the global average. In addition, the sea has encroached many miles into South Sindh thanks to Indus being sucked dry around Kotri Barrage area. Similar to Bangladesh precious agricultural lands are being lost....and population grows by 2.5% every year...
ReplyDeleteAs all this occurs, thanks to fanaticism as a state policy since 1973, pakistan has minimal critically thinking manpower available to face these daunting troubles (e.g. only a moron grows cotton in the desert). If everything is somebody else's fault, then sadly surrounding nations have yet another round of conflict coming their way. the mullahs have convinced people to have 4 or more kids as according to them every one is born with 'rizq o halal' or 'means for a religiously sanctioned living'...mental illness of the most dangerous kind.
Hi GhalibKabir [your November 3, 2020 at 5:14 PM]
ReplyDeleteWith the disclaimer that it is easy for me, 12,000 km from the subcontinent, to say – rather than living there:
Secular Pakistanis always have the problem of the large official Muslim segment, extremists and a large unmarked, troubled, border zone with Afghanistan.
It could be worse. If Pakistan was more orderly then China would openly entrust it with MIRVed thermonuclear weapons. India would then have those two even more severe enemies on 2 land borders problem.
China has a greater ability at turning off the tributary water sources for the Indus and Ganges than Pakistan. Again Pakistan disorganisation in that respect is a blessing.
Re: “only a moron grows cotton in the desert"
Australia also grows rice and cotton in the desert in the parched, very little reliable rainfall, Murray-Darling Basin https://science.anu.edu.au/news-events/news/cotton-and-rice-have-important-place-murray-darling-basin . Luckily Australia has the luxury of no land borders.
Regards
Pete
As Submarine Matters doesn't want to air overly (religious, hate thy neighbour ) sectarian comment that part of GhalibKabir's comment that isn't - is below.
ReplyDeleteChina has openly entrusted pakistan with MIRVs which means they have also shared knowledge about warhead miniaturization. To an extent pakistan's obsession with shooting its own feet off is a respite.
PS: Considering the ruins that the Darling-Murray system is in, it was certainly a boof headed idea to grow cotton in what is an historically arid land (for the most part)...hopefully the fires and raging heat waves help Australia make better agricultural choices...though I cannot see how or why the politicians/large farmers will make such a choice..
Hi GhalibKabir
ReplyDeleteMy views probably coincide with yours.
India is under constant threat from Islamic terrorism, much of it originating in Pakistan. The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks being a well known instance and there have been many more examples over the years
And India is under existential Nuclear threat from China and Pakistan in ways few countries experience.
Cheers
Pete