Andrew Greene, (Defence Correspondent at Australia’s government owned ABC News) reports,
March 11, 2020:
PETE COMMENT
And it should be added France's SSN and SSBN replacement programs are of higher priority for French Government owned Naval Group than Australia's Attack class program (which may collapse over-due, over-budget).
1. France is yet to complete a great deal of development work on its long delayed, far from
operational, Barracuda SSN program. France is mindful that its preceding Rubis class SSNs are
already up to 41 years old with the Rubis launched in 1979.
2. France has a great deal of work to do on its 15 year replacement SSBN program
- in order to start replacing the preceding Triomphant class SSBNs by 2033.
Pete
March 11, 2020:
“French submarine program 'dangerously off track'
warns report urging Australia to consider nuclear alternative
Australia's $80 billion Future Submarine
Program is "dangerously off track" according to a new report [the
Report, 1.83MB PDF, is here ] that urges the Government to ditch the controversial project and consider
a nuclear option.
Key points:
· The report
indicates there are fears the current project is at a high risk of failing
· The Defence
Minister denies those fears and maintains the project remains on track
· Under a proposed
"Plan B" scenario, the company that designed the Collins class
submarines would prepare an updated design
Businessman Gary Johnston, who commissioned and funded the study, fears
the current plan to build 12 attack class submarines designed by French company
Naval Group is at "high risk" of failing.
His report, prepared by Insight Economics, suggests Australia should
instead immediately begin work on a "Plan B" — an evolved version of
the current Collins class fleet — before eventually acquiring nuclear-powered
boats.
Earlier this year, a report from the auditor-general
confirmed the Future Submarine Program was running nine months late and
Defence was unable to show whether the $396 million spent so far had been
"fully effective".
The Government's own advisory body, including three American
admirals, even recommended the Government should consider walking away from the
project," Mr Johnston said.
Under the
proposed "Plan B", Swedish company Saab Kockums, which designed the
navy's Collins class submarines, would be asked to prepare an updated design
for the future submarine fleet.
In 2022-23, both Naval Group and Saab will present their
competing preliminary design studies for building the first batch of three
submarines in Adelaide — based on a fixed price, capability, delivery and local
content.
Mr Johnston,
along with former naval officers in the Submarines for Australia
organisation, argue that over the long term the Government should begin
preparing to acquire nuclear submarines.
With
Beijing's growing military assertiveness in the South China Sea, Mr Johnston
said the most disturbing finding in the report was that by the 2030s the
effectiveness and survivability of Australia's submarines in a high-intensity
theatre would be threatened.
"If the
Government wants to continue deploying submarines to this theatre alongside the
US Navy, the nation's duty of care to the dedicated men and women of the ADF
means we will need to begin the long and difficult process of acquiring
nuclear-powered submarines," Mr Johnston said.
"With
our very small nuclear industry, that will not be easy — but we can make a
start."
Government rejects report, issues
warning
The
Submarines for Australia report will be formally launched by ANU Emeritus
Professor Hugh White at the National Press Club today, but it is already
drawing fire from the Morrison Government.
"I totally reject the premise that this project is
'dangerously off track', as stated in the new Submarines for Australia
report", Defence Minister Linda Reynolds said.
"The
delivery of the attack class submarine remains on track, with construction set to
commence in 2023."
Senator
Reynolds said the technical feasibility of delivering an evolved Collins class
submarine was reviewed in 2013-14, but a review found it would be equivalent to
a whole new design, involving similar costs and risks, without a commensurate
gain in capability.
[The Defenced Minister said] "This assessment [the Report] by Submarines for Australia will only increase cost, delay the delivery, and put at risk our submarine capability."
[The Defenced Minister said] "This assessment [the Report] by Submarines for Australia will only increase cost, delay the delivery, and put at risk our submarine capability."
The Defence
Minister also flatly rejected any suggestion of a nuclear-powered submarine in
the future.
"As has
been the policy of successive Australian Governments, a nuclear-powered
submarine is not being considered as an option for the attack class
submarine," Senator Reynolds said.”
PETE COMMENT
1. France is yet to complete a great deal of development work on its long delayed, far from
operational, Barracuda SSN program. France is mindful that its preceding Rubis class SSNs are
already up to 41 years old with the Rubis launched in 1979.
2. France has a great deal of work to do on its 15 year replacement SSBN program
- in order to start replacing the preceding Triomphant class SSBNs by 2033.
Pete
Hi Pete,
ReplyDeleteAbout SSN, why Australia shying away from US in such projects? No European country ever able to match the technological and manufacturing capability of Americans.
While countries like UK, India, China, and Russia take 8-15 years in building nuclear subs, French is an exception. There political choice of choosing LEU is now costing them. But Americans popping out SSNs in every 2-4 years, this is amazing manufacturing capability. We talk about Chinese manufacturing capability, the Chinese are actually nowhere in front of American's nuclear industry.
And I know Americans never exported nuclear tech(at least officially) except the UK. But as part of Five Eyes and ANZUS, I am pretty sure Australia able to get a deal.
And it is far better for choosing Americans in building the Australian nuclear industry and sub(like Russians helped in building the Indian ATV project by VVER-Kudankulam contract, and their involvement in Vizag).
And building a nuclear sub is not just about building a hull, it is also about training people, creating a human resource, the capability of handling a situation in case of a nuclear disaster.
It requires a whole ecosystem, and I do believe no one is going to be better than Americans in helping to create such an ecosystem in Australia.
I know this is not what people want to here, but, what has the ASC and SAAB got to say about the subject. A Collins 2.0, 3.0 etc. just look at what the A26ER has to offer, look what SAAB has to offer. Why don’t we do something out of the norm and “ask” what could they produce to fulfil the role that Australia needs.
ReplyDeleteHi Arpit Kanodia
ReplyDeleteRe: "About SSN, why Australia shying away from US in such projects?"
1. I don't think the US would share the technology (as sensitive as not-share-with-anyone F-22 technology) of the only SSNs the US is producing, which are Virginias. Los Angeles class are too old - with short use by dates. No Australian-only SSN types could be efficiently built.
2. Virginias are very crew intensive, in part for SubSafe/damage control. Each Virginia, to be efficient, has 2 x 135 crew (Blue and Gold) = 270 all up. Probably Australia only has about 270 active submariners. Enough to operate only 1, or stretching it 2, Virginias.
3. Offering the Virginia would break NPT rules as the reactor of the Virginia is 90+% bomb-grade HEU.
4. The US may prefer Australia not have SSNs because Australia could only afford or man 2. Also the US may prefer Australia stick with SSKs as they can perform some missions eg. littoral/narrows, that US SSNs cannot do and Australian SSKs are useful for US ASW training.
5. Australia buying cheaper, lower-tech, less crew intensive, LEU, French Barracuda SSNs, is a whole different, more reasonable, issue. All that extra money Aus is paying for the Attack class may buy only 4 or 6 Attacks before Aus buys 4 Barracuda SSNs (in the late 2030s/early 2040s).
Are, so Russia, was willing to help India with the Arihant/ATV project (including submarine reactor) in part for India giving Russia so much money (with US$2.6 billion being a small part) to build six VVER-Kudankulam electrical power reactors - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudankulam_Nuclear_Power_Plant ?
Regards
Pete
Hi Pete ,
ReplyDeleteThe deal about ATV happened with Soviets in 1987 along with VVER (not Russians), also that was in Rupees.
But the civil aspect of the deal collapsed with the collapse of USSR (not ATV project but).
And actually india had to pay the debt in dollars actually.
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/economy/story/19930228-tenuous-trade-off-keeps-indo-soviet-bilateral-trade-going-810718-1993-02-28
The deal of VVER reinvented in 1998, and surprisingly at same time BrahMos Aerospace was established, which was actually resulted in (or actually a cover) K series SSBN development.
Also I like to add, many people might not realize this, fall of soviet union really hurted the Indian nuclear program and space program (even though that is with French) , it really slowed us down for 2 decades almost.
ReplyDeleteAbout india tested nuclear weapons or not if soviet union survived. I do think india still tested it, it's a myth BJP want to test in 1998.
Actually weaponization was ordered by PM Rajiv Gandhi, after Sumdorong Chu incident. When cabinet asked Indian army to clear those posts, in reply then C in C VN Sharma of eastern command asked for war directives in case PLA use tactical nukes on indian positions.
And after that whole cabinet panicked and we ceasefired. Sumdorong chu since then is under control of PLA.
Thanks Arpit Kanodia [re March 14, 2020 at 4:58 AM and March 14, 2020 at 5:19 AM]
ReplyDeleteEven during the Soviet era the soviets in control, all of whom lived in Moscow, were called "the Russians".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudankulam_Nuclear_Power_Plant mentions "US$2.6 billion"
The US dollar being a better understood currency many scholars convert to.
Thanks for the other views/info.
especially "fall of soviet union really hurt the Indian nuclear program and space program ...slowed us down for 2 decades almost."
"Actually weaponization was ordered by PM Rajiv Gandhi, after Sumdorong Chu incident" referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_Sino-Indian_skirmish
True clashes with China (even the 1962 Border War) were a spur to India's nuclear program. Also India was competing with Pakistan's 1970s Z A Bhutto ordered nuclear bomb program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Development_of_nuclear_weapons
Regards
Pete