tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post7220877333627966990..comments2024-03-28T21:57:32.099+11:00Comments on Submarine Matters & Australian Nuclear Weapons: 2016 Defence White Paper - Comparing Australia's relations with the 3 Submarine Contender countriesPete2http://www.blogger.com/profile/06134037393078707072noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-38088834892613515152016-03-09T13:48:27.412+11:002016-03-09T13:48:27.412+11:00Hi BK
This helpfulness to China did not stop in 2...Hi BK<br /><br />This helpfulness to China did not stop in 2013. Note that MTU 4000 have been frequently modified for submarine use. Having Roll-Royce help build a Chinese factory to build MTU 4000s helps.<br /><br />The Chinese are great at modifying things. MTU 4000 have an established role in submarines http://www.rina.org.uk/Series_4000_to_form_basis_of_new_submarine_diesel.html <br /><br />See February 19, 2016 article http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/rolls-royce-and-china-yuchai-to-jointly-produce-mtu-engines-300222849.html :<br /><br />Headline "Rolls-Royce and China Yuchai to Jointly Produce MTU Engines"<br /><br />- China Yuchai International and Rolls-Royce Power Systems to form joint venture in China<br />- Production of MTU Series 4000 engines to start in 2017 in Yulin, China<br />- Capacity for up to 1,500 engines a year with components produced in Germany and China<br /><br />FRIEDRICHSHAFEN, Germany and SINGAPORE, Feb. 19, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- MTU Friedrichshafen GmbH ("MTU"), a subsidiary of Rolls-Royce Power Systems, and China Yuchai International Limited's main operating subsidiary, Guangxi Yuchai Machinery Company Ltd. ("GYMCL"), have today signed an agreement to set up a 50/50 joint venture for the production, under licence from MTU, of MTU diesel engines in China. Each party will invest 75 million RMB (around 10.5 million Euro) in the joint venture.<br /><br />The joint venture will be based at GYMCL's primary manufacturing facilities in Yulin City in Guangxi Province, south China and is expected to begin production in 2017. The joint venture will produce MTU Series 4000 diesel engines compliant with China Tier 3 emission standards with power outputs ranging from 1400 to 3490 kW, primarily for the Chinese off-highway market, in particular for power generation and oil & gas applications.<br /><br />The joint venture will open up new growth opportunities for both partners, particularly in China and Asia. The joint venture will enable better access to the Chinese market for the MTU Series 4000 diesel engines, via the extensive sales and service network operated by GYMCL. GYMCL will, as a result of the joint venture, be able to offer its customers technologically advanced engines that have a proven record on the global market. The joint venture engines will be marketed by GYMCL and MTU Suzhou within China and by MTU and its subsidiaries exclusively outside China... <br /><br />About China Yuchai International<br />China Yuchai International Limited, through its subsidiary, Guangxi Yuchai Machinery Company Limited ("GYMCL"), engages in the manufacture, assembly, and sale of a wide variety of light-, medium- and heavy-duty engines for trucks, buses, passenger vehicles, construction equipment, marine and agriculture applications in China...For more information, please visit http://www.cyilimited.com.<br /><br />About Rolls-Royce Holdings plc<br /><br />Rolls-Royce's vision is to be the market-leader in high performance power systems where our engineering expertise, global reach and deep industry knowledge deliver outstanding customer relationships and solutions. We operate across five businesses: Civil Aerospace, Defence Aerospace, Marine, Nuclear and Power Systems.<br /><br />Rolls-Royce Power Systems is headquartered in Friedrichshafen in southern Germany and employs around 10,000 people. The product portfolio includes MTU-brand high-speed engines and propulsion systems for ships,...and defence vehicles and for the oil and gas industry. <br />Rolls-Royce has customers in more than 120 countries, comprising more than 400 airlines and leasing customers, 160 armed forces, 4,000 marine customers including 70 navies, and more than 5,000 power and nuclear customers.<br /> SOURCE China Yuchai International Limited"<br />Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-74249594857025849942016-03-09T13:27:34.245+11:002016-03-09T13:27:34.245+11:00[Parts of http://in.reuters.com/article/breakout-s...[Parts of http://in.reuters.com/article/breakout-submarines-special-report-pix-g-idINL4N0JJ0FM20131219 continued]<br /><br />"MTU is a unit of Germany's Tognum Group, which is jointly owned by UK-based multinational Rolls Royce Group PLC and Germany's Daimler AG. Contracts with the PLA and powerful defense manufacturers give MTU and its parent influence in competing for contracts in China's massive civilian market. "<br /><br />"...China's biggest arms maker, China North Industries Group Corporation, or Norinco, has been making MTU engines under license since 1986.<br /><br />In 2010, Tognum opened a joint venture with Norinco to assemble large, high speed MTU diesel engines and emergency generators at a plant in the city of Datong in Shanxi Province. A major goal of the joint venture is to win orders for emergency backup generators for China's expanding roster of nuclear power plants, Tognum said in a press statement. MTU engines are also built under license at the Shaanxi Diesel Engine Heavy Industry Co Ltd, a subsidiary of one of China's two sprawling military and commercial shipbuilders.<br /><br />Submarine diesel technology is hardly new, but these engines are built to exacting standards to ensure reliability under extreme conditions. MTU has been building them for more than 50 years. The engine delivered to China for the Song and Yuan classes, the MTU 396 SE84 series, is one of the world's most widely used submarine power plants. Each of the Chinese submarines has three MTU diesels, according to technical specifications listed in Chinese military affairs journals and websites.<br /><br />China's military is reluctant to acknowledge the role of foreign technology in its latest weapons, preferring to recognize the performance of its domestic designers and arms makers. But articles in maritime magazines and naval websites have credited the close relationship between MTU and China's domestic industry for providing the Song class with "the world's most advanced submarine power system."<br /><br />In its promotional brochures, MTU says almost 250 of these engines in service with submarines around the world have racked up over 310,000 hours in operation. Some have also been fitted to nuclear submarines as back-up power plants, the company says. MTU also sells different versions of the 396 series for use in locomotives, power generation and mining.<br /><br />A spokesman for the Federal Office for Economics and Export Control (BAFA), the German authority that has to approve dual-use exports, said exports of diesel engines built especially for military use would be illegal. Engines that can be used for both civilian and military purposes would have to be approved by BAFA, he said - and in the case of China, such dual-use engines "would probably not be approvable." He declined to comment specifically, however, about the MTU diesel engine sales to China's navy."Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-70438255736619550872016-03-09T13:27:12.916+11:002016-03-09T13:27:12.916+11:00[Parts of http://in.reuters.com/article/breakout-s...[Parts of http://in.reuters.com/article/breakout-submarines-special-report-pix-g-idINL4N0JJ0FM20131219 continued]<br /><br />China now has the world's second-largest defense budget after the United States and the fastest growing military market. Many of Europe's biggest defense contractors have been unable to resist its allure. High-performance diesels from MTU and French engine maker Pielstick also drive many of China's most advanced surface warships and support vessels, SIPRI data shows. Pielstick was jointly owned by MTU and German multinational Man Diesel & Turbo until 2006, when Man took full control."<br /><br />"...Europe's embargo, however, has been far more loosely interpreted and enforced. Thus weapons and, perhaps more importantly for the PLA, dual-use technology have steadily flowed from America's European allies to China."<br /><br />"...The value of German export licenses for weapons was a relatively modest 32 million euros in the decade to 2011. However, EU arms trade figures don't include dual-use technology that in many cases can be sold without licenses."<br /><br />"Critics of the EU's arms trade with China say member states have failed to devise a system to enforce the embargo. They say this reflects the loose structure of the EU, where each member state interprets the restrictions differently according to domestic law, regulations and trade policies.<br /><br />Geography plays a role, too: The distance between Europe and Asia means there is ambivalence about the rapid growth of Chinese military power. From Europe, China looks like an opportunity, not a threat."<br /><br />"...In the meantime, Europe has discovered a lucrative trade selling components, particularly if they incorporate dual-use technologies that fall outside the embargo.<br /><br />"Nobody sells entire weapons systems," says Otfried Nassauer, director of the Berlin Information Centre for Transatlantic Security and an expert on Germany's arms trade. "But components, especially pricey high tech components, that works OK.""<br /><br />"Under Beijing's long-term policies to promote innovation, domestic arms makers are encouraged to import the foreign technology that China lacks. The challenge is to adapt this range of components and know-how into locally built weapons.<br /><br />One example is how German engine makers have contributed technology to support China's expanding fleet of support vessels that monitor satellites and missiles."<br /><br />MORE TO FOLLOWPetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-26090298586419780292016-03-09T13:26:23.436+11:002016-03-09T13:26:23.436+11:00Hi BK
See all over this December 20, 2013 article...Hi BK<br /><br />See all over this December 20, 2013 article http://in.reuters.com/article/breakout-submarines-special-report-pix-g-idINL4N0JJ0FM20131219 about China benefitting from European designs for Chinese military use. That article says:<br /><br />"* Much of China's naval fleet powered by European diesel engines<br />* EU arms embargo doesn't cover dual-use technology<br />* Lucrative trade in dual-use components from Europe<br />* Germany's MTU supplies state-of-art engines for China's submarines"<br /><br />Article continues:<br />"Most of China's advanced surface warships are powered by German and French-designed diesel engines."<br /><br />"Song and Yuan-class boats. The beating hearts of these subs are state-of-the-art diesel engines designed by MTU Friedrichshafen GmbH of Friedrichshafen, Germany. Alongside 12 advanced Kilo-class submarines imported from Russia, these 21 German-powered boats are the workhorses of China's modern conventional submarine force"<br /><br />"Arms trade data from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) to the end of 2012 shows that 56 MTU-designed diesels for submarines have been supplied to the Chinese navy.<br /><br />"They are the world's leading submarine diesel engines," says veteran engineer Hans Ohff, former managing director of the Australian Submarine Corporation, the company that built Australia's Collins-class conventional submarines.<br /><br />MTU declined to answer questions about transfers to the Chinese navy, future deliveries or whether it supplies technical support or servicing. "All MTU exports strictly follow German export laws," a company spokesman said."<br /><br />"Transfers of European technology to the Chinese military are documented in SIPRI data, official EU arms trade figures and technical specifications reported in Chinese military publications."<br /><br />MORE TO FOLLOW<br /><br />Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-75303844999675734772016-03-09T08:36:30.694+11:002016-03-09T08:36:30.694+11:00Pete,
Re Re https://www.mfat.govt.nz/assets/_secu...Pete,<br /><br />Re Re https://www.mfat.govt.nz/assets/_securedfiles/Aid-Prog-docs/Franz-Arrangement-Brochure.pdf . It may be that New Zealand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade does not have the resources to make the FRANZ Arrangement well known. For a small donation Submarine Matters could write a promotion article :)<br /><br />At least they wrote something that according to you own post http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/search?updated-max=2016-03-04T16:10:00%2B11:00&max-results=4 you had not yet encountered.<br /><br />Re http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/why-australia-should-go-with-germany-for-its-future-submarine-project/ presents a case for German strategic affinity with Australia but it seems to lack substance.<br /><br />Where is the substance lacking? Could you be a bit more specific?<br /><br />Re Germany's commercial relations with China means Germany shares much sensitive defence useful designs with China http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/german-diesel-engines-and-aip-for.html .<br /><br />Are you seriously arguing that Germany shares sensitive defence designs with China? Until now, I thought this blog is serious, but this is indeed as far away as the Chinese microchips installed in your own mobile, ready to be activated on the day of dawn... In this respect, it would be worthwhile questioning where China gets the resources from to build up their military capabilities? I did not think that this blog follows myths and doomsday theories.<br />But it gets better...<br /><br />Re China (as a much more valuable current/future export customer for Germany) may get better diesels and AIP from Germany than Australia would get.<br /><br />Really??? Any proof?<br /><br />Regards,<br />BKBKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-65307654276301321422016-03-07T13:07:40.821+11:002016-03-07T13:07:40.821+11:00Thanks Jason [at 6/3/16 12:49AM]
Your links show ...Thanks Jason [at 6/3/16 12:49AM]<br /><br />Your links show that the US, Japanese and Australian defence forces are doing established and low key exercises in the Western Pacific area.<br /><br />In contrast China's new island base building is adding to military tension. This seems an objective of just some factions of the Chinese military, rather than being of broader benefit to China.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-34570398999722400172016-03-06T17:06:04.933+11:002016-03-06T17:06:04.933+11:00Hi S [2 comments at 6/3/16 1:23 AM]
Thanks - very...Hi S [2 comments at 6/3/16 1:23 AM]<br /><br />Thanks - very interesting information.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-88479983649127668322016-03-06T14:07:30.011+11:002016-03-06T14:07:30.011+11:00Hi BK re FRANZ
Thanks for those articles.
Re ht...Hi BK re FRANZ<br /><br />Thanks for those articles. <br /><br />Re https://www.mfat.govt.nz/assets/_securedfiles/Aid-Prog-docs/Franz-Arrangement-Brochure.pdf . It may be that New Zealand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade does not have the resources to make the FRANZ Arrangement well known. For a small donation Submarine Matters could write a promotion article :)<br /><br />http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/why-australia-should-go-with-germany-for-its-future-submarine-project/ presents a case for German strategic affinity with Australia but it seems to lack substance.<br /><br />Germany's commercial relations with China means Germany shares much sensitive defence useful designs with China http://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/german-diesel-engines-and-aip-for.html . <br /><br />China (as a much more valuable current/future export customer for Germany) may get better diesels and AIP from Germany than Australia would get.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-85904425056371577912016-03-06T08:47:00.614+11:002016-03-06T08:47:00.614+11:00Hi Pete,
On Germany's interest in Asia see her...Hi Pete,<br />On Germany's interest in Asia see here: http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/why-australia-should-go-with-germany-for-its-future-submarine-project/ , and for the FRANZ Arrangement look here https://www.mfat.govt.nz/assets/_securedfiles/Aid-Prog-docs/Franz-Arrangement-Brochure.pdf .<br />Regards,<br />BKBKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-45910394582407071252016-03-06T01:23:53.073+11:002016-03-06T01:23:53.073+11:00continued
Japanese patrols in the South China Sea...continued<br /><br />Japanese patrols in the South China Sea are as follows:.<br />Activities of JMSDF are limited to an exclusively defensive security activities based on the Constitution Article 9.<br /><br />JMSDF training Asian countries are as follows:<br />Various corporations are planned and conducted. Japan Coast Guard also conducts training.<br /><br />JMSDF humanitarian support in the South Pacific and other areas are as follows:<br />2009-present Anti-piracy operation (P3C, Warship) <br />2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami<br />2010/08-09 Pakistan damaged by flood<br />2013/11-12 The Philippines damaged by Severe Tropical Storm Pewa: humanitarian support & disaster relief by 1,180 JMSDF troops<br />2014/01/03-09 Air Asia flight 8501 for search and rescue operation<br />2014/03-04 Air Malaysia flight 370 for search and rescue operation<br />2015/06/21-27 the Philippine Navy (Palawan Island, Palawan Island north west ocean area)for humanitarian support & disaster relief training by using P3C.<br />2016/02/25-29 Hosting of 19th Asia-Pacific Countries Navy University -“Strengthening of Maritime Security and Corporation in Asia-Pacific Area” <br />2016/03/05-present, the Aurora Australis rescue operation<br /><br />Japanese action to protect global fish stocks and Australian EEZs are non-related issues to JMSDF or submarine matters.<br /><br />Regards<br />S<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-24779176061034733522016-03-06T01:23:23.202+11:002016-03-06T01:23:23.202+11:00Hi Pete
Though its activities are constrained by ...Hi Pete<br /><br />Though its activities are constrained by the Constitution, MOD is seriously making effort for the international corporation. I show some examples of the effort by JMSDF.<br /><br />The bilateral training exercises of JMSDF in 2015 & 2016 are as follows:<br />2015/04/05 Sri Lankan Navy (Sri Lankan west ocean area)<br />2015/04/23 Maldives National Defense Force (Maldives surrounding ocean area)<br />2015/05/12 the Philippine Navy (Manila west ocean area)<br />2015/06/13 French Navy (east Gulf of Aden)<br />2015/08/19 Malaysian Navy (Sabah, west ocean area)<br />2015/09/14 US Navy (Yokosuka) for disaster relief training<br />2015/09/21-24 US Navy (Okinawa surrounding ocean area) for 127th anti-submarine operation<br />2015/10/19 S Korean Navy (Kanto south ocean area) for search and rescue training<br />2015/10/19-22 RAN (Kanto-Shikoku south ocean area)<br />2015/10/23 French Navy (Okinawa north ocean area)<br />2015/11/11 Sri Lankan Navy (Sri Lankan west ocean area)<br />2015/11/16-25 US Navy (Japan surrounding ocean area, airspace)<br />2015/11/30 Sri Lankan Navy (Sri Lankan west ocean area) <br />2015/12/18 Turkish Navy (Gulf of Aden)<br />2016/01/28 EU (Spanish Navy) (Gulf of Aden)<br />2016/01/26-02/02 US Navy (Tokai ocean area) for 128th anti-submarine activities<br />2016/02/09 Pakistan Navy (Gulf of Aden)<br /><br />to be continued<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-38912395500544166152016-03-06T00:49:03.660+11:002016-03-06T00:49:03.660+11:00It may not be much at the moment, but the US, Japa...It may not be much at the moment, but the US, Japan, and Australia have been training together in Cape North exercises at Guam. The exercises include humanitarian operations and air to air combat.<br /><br />http://www.defence.gov.au/exercises/copenorthguam/<br />http://www.yokota.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123439426<br />http://www.kunsan.af.mil/News/tabid/1925/Article/673610/cope-north-16-pacific-partners-sharpen-air-combat-skills.aspx<br /><br />Best regards,<br />Jason<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-76015004875087765342016-03-04T18:25:22.702+11:002016-03-04T18:25:22.702+11:00Hi HK
Yes France has a headstart since https://en...Hi HK<br /><br />Yes France has a headstart since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Antoine_de_Bougainville but with China's island building and North Korea's missile rattling Japan will probably move on all those tasks rather quickly.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />PetePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624742078679760819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19245896.post-57257401991973385552016-03-04T14:18:45.276+11:002016-03-04T14:18:45.276+11:00As I mentioned before, a lot of talk and not much ...As I mentioned before, a lot of talk and not much to show for when it comes to Japan-Oz cooperation.<br /><br />Show me the bilateral training exercises.<br />Show me Japanese patrols in the South China Sea.<br />Show me the JMSDF training Asian allies in vital areas like ASW.<br />Show me JMSDF humanitarian support in the South Pacific.<br />Show me Japanese action to protect global fish stocks and Australian EEZs from their ravenous domestic demand.<br /><br />On all those items the Marine Nationale has proved to be a more useful partner for years. But not to worry, Japan will live up to its strategic partner status... one day.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />HKAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com