November 17, 2017

Chinese, NK & Russian Designed Submarine Propulsion

After much frustrating work I've decided to steer away from tabulating propulsion information on Western designed submarines. This is due to the vast amount of conflicting information, from numerous, already existing, written sources.

Seeming conflicting information is partly due to:

-  There frequently being more than one diesel generator in a given sub – with the customer
    frequently deciding on the total number of diesels and their total power.

-  Put another way, different customer countries use different diesel generator, motor and AIP power

-  There are cruising speed/power "red lines" (surfaced, snorting and fully submerged) which, 
    if exceeded, could cause overheating over certain periods or excessive wear and shorter lives
    of engine parts.

-  Maximum diesel generator power output may be twice or more of the minimum.

-  Diesels may be run far lower than capacity – to reduce noise.

-  Essential use of diesel in snorkeling mode will likely reduce power output by 20%.

-  Diesel generators and the electric motors have different power output due to reduction gear or
   PSMS particulars.

-  Battery and/or AIP use has variable impacts on motor power output.

Much more interesting and useful is focus on the small amount of information on Chinese, North Korean and Russian designed submarine propulsion mixtures.


November 16, 2017

The Indo-Pacific Quadrilateral Rises Again

Australia's rising naval power (epitomised by the 2 LHDs and 3 AWDs) is being paralleled by its participation in the strategic Quadrilateral concept. The other 3 Quadrilateral members are the powerful maritime nations, US, Japan and India.

The Quadrilateral's prime purpose is to contain China's strategic expansion in the relatively newly labelled region "Indo-Pacific" (see map below). Within the "Indo" (Indian Ocean) Chinese surface ship and submarine visits have risen sharply in the last 5 years. China has also established a naval base at Djibouti, Africa, facing the Indian Ocean.

Within the Pacific China is of course building militarised South China Sea islands and bilaterally courting or pressuring, some Southeast Asian nations (Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia and Malaysia). China may argue that this activity is all part of its oil-gas trade route One Belt One Road Initiative but the raw uncompromising militaristic flavour of China's advance demands containment by other Indo-Pacific countries.

The US, Japanese, Indian and Australian members of the Quadrilateral will most notably interact in naval exercises, but also quiet diplomatic meetings continue between them. 

If Trump had not dumped the TPP negotiations the Quadrilateral countries might have also formed a powerful economic grouping within the TPP. Instead the Chinese led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) is proving successful while the TPP proposal collapses.

To make the Quadrilateral work Reality Twitter Trump needs to foster consistent US leadership.

As in 2007-2008 China may yet flex its economic muscles to break the Quadrilateral (the weakest link unfortunatly being Australia).

The Indo-Pacific Region, an expanse that well fits containment of China by Quadrilateral nations: Japan, India, Australia and the US.


November 15, 2017

Indian Admiral Lanba Visits French Barracuda SSN Project

An interesting report of November 12, 2017 from Sandeep Unnithan has inspired facts and thoughts:
-  Admiral Sunil Lanba Chief of Indian Naval Staff visited the Naval Group (was DCNS) submarine
   yard at Cherbourg, France, in early November 2017. Admiral Lanba was given a detailed
   presentation on France’s new SSNs, the Barracuda class. The first, the Suffren, is due to be
   launched soon.

-  Naval Group is also building six Kalvari class Scorpene SSKs for the Indian navy at Mazagon
   Docks, Mumbai under a 2005 contract. 

-  Naval Group is also competing for the much delayed six AIP SSK Project 75I. If Naval Group wins
   Project 75I Naval Group may just possibly agree to technology transfers from the Barracuda in
   several respects:
   :  influencing the hull shape of an improved, larger Scorpene for Project 75I
   :  the pump jet and K15 reactor used in France’s Triomphant class SSBN and soon to be launched
      Barracuda class SSN may influence India's SSBNs (to fire K-4 SLBMs in the 2020s) and
      influence India's 6 SSN Project (in the 2030s)

As well as visiting France’s Naval Group I would guess that Admiral Lanba has recently been leading Indian delegations to visit shipyards of the other remaining Project 75I competitors, which are:
-  Germany’s TKMS
-  Sweden’s Saab, and
-  Russia’s Rosoboronexport/Rubin Design Bureau

The Suffren, first of the French Barracuda nuclear propelled attack submarines (SSNs) sports a paint job indicating 1 of 4(?) torpedo hatches and the bow sonar (?) The launch ceremony will probably be in late 2017/early 2018. (Photo courtesy AFP and Naval Group).


November 14, 2017

German/Italian U-212A/Todaro Class TABLE - 1st Attempt

Below is my first attempt at a German/Italian U-212A/Todaro Class TABLE. Much needs to be added and corrected (especially for "Batch 3" and what may be built for Norway and Poland.

What do you think?

Pennant No.
Number Built
U212A Batch 1
1 MTU 16V 396, motor is 2.85MW, AIP is 2x120kW 
Larger than Type 206, has AIP, 5 more HWTs

U212A Batch 2
1 MTU 16V 396, motor is 2.85MW, AIP is 2x120kW

U212A Batch 3

Todaro Class Batch 1
1 MTU 16V 396, motor is 2.85MW, AIP is 2x120kW
Larger than Sauro Class, has AIP, 1 more HWT

Todaro Class Batch 2
1 MTU 16V 396, motor is 2.85MW, AIP is 2x120kW

Todaro Class Batch 3



The German TKMS Type 212A. Model courtesy Revell Shop Germany.


November 13, 2017

Japanese Safety Standards for Lithium-ion Battery (LIB) Use

In setting lithium-ion battery (LIB) Safety Standards Japan thoroughly tests land, ship and submarine LIBs. Above see a drop impact tester (on left) and vibration tester (on right). Photo courtesy Japan Industry News.---
Anonymous commented about Japanese Industrial Standards on lithium-ion batteries (LIBs) for ships. These Standards have requirements and recommendations on LIB safety. 
[What are some examples of some Japanese maritime LIB safety standards by code and numbers? For more general Japanese Safety Standard for LIBs see subheading “Legal regulations in Japan

Pete has found a reference to NDS F8016B, NDS F8016B is not a safety standard, but it is a example of a Standard for Japanese submarines using LIBs. NDS F8016B sets down rules to minimize stray magnetic fields created by LIBs. From the first Soryu Mark 2 (27SS) an extra 240 LIB cell modules may be placed in the space where the old Soryu Mark 1’s AIPs LOx tank assembly was.

Specifically 240 comes from Japanese Ministry of Defence Standard NDS F8016B “General rules for design of equipment with small stray magnetic field”, 5.3”Arrangement of main batteries for submarine” which specifies that submarine generally equips with directly connected 240 single cells as a group.] 
Safety analysis tools for risk reduction measures age equipment using LIBs include:

-  Fault Tree Analysis (FTA)
-  Safety Integrity Level (SIL)

Risks of LIBs for submarine are often pointed out. But submarine operation and maintenance involves many risks.
For example the practice of rectangular “sunroof” hull cutting on Collins submarines (scroll 2/3s way down on this 2016 SubMatt article) to service diesel-generator sets) involves risk of fracture when Collins dive deeply. In fact the RAN leadership have limited maximum Collins diving depths because of the risks of extensive hull cutting.
It could be that the possibility of a submarine sinking caused by rectangular hull cutting is far higher than the risk of LIBs failure.
Anonymous's Article and Pete's comment in [...] Brackets

November 10, 2017

November 2017 Donor Report: The IUSS in the Pacific & Indian Oceans

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November 9, 2017

Australian Tribunal Permits Naval Group To Bar Any Chinese & Russian Employees

Submarine Matters has long expressed concern about submarine companies that operate in Australia employing current or former citizens of China. See the last paragraph of SubMatt’s 2015 article.

This concern is more widely held as an interesting article of November 8, 2017 by Tory Shepherd, State Editor of Adelaide’s Advertiser, reveals. This is a small portion of the Advertiser article. I have added the links below:

“Ruling means submarine designers Naval Group can stop Chinese, Russians from getting work

THE winners of the $50 billion Future Submarines project have been granted freedom to discriminate against certain nationalities to protect top-secret information from spies.
The exemption from discrimination laws means French designers Naval Group will be able to reject job applicants from countries including China and Russia, stopping them from getting on to the Osborne site.
...Now, the South Australian Employment Tribunal has granted Naval Group immunity from the Equal Opportunity Act, which usually stops companies discriminating on the basis of nationality.
The tribunal found it was in the public interest to grant the exemption because without it, SA might lose some work on the 12 submarines being built for the Royal Australian Navy.
... [Shortfin] will use combat systems from the US. The US has a list of banned countries [including Russia, China, North Korea and Iran] within its International Traffic in Arms Regulations...."

November 8, 2017

US Report that India is Revealing Russian SSN Secrets to US Navy

One can tell this Akula II is INS Chakra from the India naval ensign flying above the fin/sail and probably (?) the badge on the front of the fin/sail.

The US government may have provided information that India is breaking a nuclear submarine (SSN) technology agreement with Russia. If so, this may be a US attempt to drive a wedge between India and Russia. More specifically it may reduce the chances India may lease a second Russian SSN and reduce the chances of Russian assistance to India on future indigenous Indian SSNs, SSBNs and their SLBMs.

On November 7, 2017 US website Strategypage reported Russian suspicions that India is violating the INS Chakra (Akula II ex-Nerpa SSN) lease agreement. Russian authorities suspect India is revealing some Chakra nuclear submarine technology details to US naval personnel. Russia has attempted to prevent such "snooping" by stipulating that a Russian naval officer be aboard INS Chakra at all times.

Strategypage goes on to report:

“Russia is also believed to suspect that a growing number of Indian naval officers have become so dissatisfied with Russian ships and poor Russian workmanship and repairs that they might pass details of [INS Chakra] the Akula II India already has to U.S. Navy officers they work with.”


My searches so far haven't unearthed Indian or other US information to support Strategypage's  (India violating Chakra lease agreement) report. Some details of Strategypage's report might have been inserted by the US Government as a small part of a campaign to cause political, strategic and economic friction between India and Russia.


The US is increasingly courting India, in part to separate India from Russia (India's largest supplier of arms). The US also wants to sell India several civilian Westinghouse nuclear power reactors to supply electricity. Russian company Rosatom (see same article) is a nuclear power reactor competitor to Westinghouse.

In August 2017 a continuing US/Boeing desire to sell F/A-18E/F Super Hornets to India was reported. Such US aircraft may eventually replace many of the Russian MiGs and Sukhois fighter/attack aircraft that India has been buying for decades.

India financed the completion of a Russian Akula II SSN Nerpa in the 2000s. Nerpa became Chakra on lease to India in 2012 (see right sidebar).

For several years India has expressed interest in financing the completion of a second Akula II (Project 971). Russia might then lease this second Akula II concurrently with INS Chakra or it may be delivered to India once Chakra's 10 year lease expires in 2022 (or a few years later).

At one stage India even hoped to lease one of Russia's late model Yasen SSNs. Russia quietly rejected this as Russia has too few Yasen SSNs to spare and Yasen technology is considered too sensitive to share with "lease" customers.


Continuing Russian supply of weapons to India would be opposed by many in the US Government. But others would look forward to access to the latest Russian weapons' technological details once Russia sells or leases these weapons to India.


November 6, 2017

Pete working in Adelaide in Next 12 Months?

An Air Warfare Destroyer being built at ASC, Osborne, Adelaide. From the road I saw Nuships Brisbane and Sydney under construction. Ship/submarine building is Adelaide's (only promising?) manufacturing growth industry. Phote courtesy Sydney's Daily Telegraph.

I've just been in Adelaide for 2 weeks to judge whether it a liveable city to move to.

My likely job(s) would be to continue to research submarine political and overview technical issues (especially Collins Upgrade and Australian Future Submarine) and supply talking point briefs to submarine businesses.

Likely move to Adelaide in next 12 months.

Criteria/issues in searching where to live includes:

1.  Cost of housing. Housing + carspots large enough to host long or short term guest(s) who are
     French or Australian.

2.  Easy access from house to Osborne (improved motorways/roads/rail helps)

3.  Nearby/accessible shopping centers and other retail services.

4.  Would learning French be necessary or are Naval Group and French contractors intending to use
     spoken and written English only?

5.  Interesting that Adelaidians cannot seem to access better submarine information using local
     hardcopy sources than is already available on Internet (accessible anywhere). For example
    Reuters and the The Australian seems far better informed than what seems Adelaide's local
    newspaper The Advertiser.

6. Yet Adelaide's only growing manufacturing sector seems to be ship/submarine building.

7.  Aim that Submarine Matters would continue - with shorter articles.


October 12, 2017

Australian Navy Growing in Size & Missiom

Australia's brief was relatively easy when Australia was the US's "deputy sheriff" covering the "Arc of Instability" (mainly islands from East Timor through PNG, Solomons to Fiji) up until about 2008. But now Australia's "Worry Creep" is even more complex with broader problems, including North Korea terrorising northeast Asia and China coveting (at least economically) the entire
 Indo-Pacific Region.


In August 2017 Australian personnel took part in joint US-Korean military exercises

Exercise Haedoli Wallaby

In solidarity with South Korea (considering the North Korean threat) Australian frigates HMAS Melbourne and HMAS Parramatta will be making port visits to South Korea and conducting "Haedoli Wallaby" exercises with the South Korean Navy in late October 2017. "Haedoli" means "dolphin" in Korean.

Exercise Indo-Pacific Endeavor 2017

China would be aware that Australia is in touch with other countries in the region. During September to November 2017 HMAS Melbourne and Parramatta are also participating in a more widespread Indo-Pacific Endeavor 2017. Australian participants also include the newly commissioned landing helicopter dock HMAS Adelaide (photo below) - also the frigates HMAS Darwin, HMAS Toowoomba and replenishment ship HMAS Sirius. This is the largest Australian naval exercise in 40 years and involves visits to and/or interaction with naval forces from Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, the Philippines, Brunei, Cambodia, Micronesian Islands, India, again South Korea, Singapore, Thailand and East Timor. More at The Diplomat (paysite).

The Australian vessels are also exercising with those US destroyers that are still undamaged in the region.

Growing in size and becoming more active. Landing Helicopter Dock ships HMAS Canberra and HMAS Adelaide as well as smaller Royal Australia Navy vessels at Fleet Base East (Sydney). (Photo courtesy Australia in the Great War)


In the face of the North Korean threat Australia is taking other measures in solidarity with South Korea.

The third ROK-Australian 2 + 2 meeting in Seoul was held on October 12 and 13, 2017. This is between Australia’s Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and Defence Minister Marise Payne with their South Korean counterparts. Here is the Australian Ministers’ Joint Media Release.

It is highly likely that if North Korea attacked US forces in South Korea, in Japan/Okinawa or US forces at sea this would invoke the ANZUS Treaty. US and probably Australian forces would then be fighting against North Korea. See more at the (Australian) ABC News article by Andrew Greene.


October 11, 2017

October 2017 Donor Report: South Korea’s Next Submarine Class Dilemma

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October 10, 2017

Some (likely) Naval Group Approaches to Australia's Future Submarine

After much discussion on Submarine Matters (here and here) and elsewhere on the direction Naval Group is going with Australia's Future Submarine...

Some observations are:

Descriptions of a huge 50 year to design, build and upgrade submarine program are made by different people, at different times, for different purposes, targeting different audiences.

Disruptions to the future submarine selection process made it difficult for the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) and contestants to nail down final submarine requirements and designs. Up to February 2015 then Prime Minister Abbott unilaterally chose Japan. From February 2015 a selection process hid the reality that Japan was quietly still the winner. Japan was ahead until Abbott was removed from the Prime Ministership in September 2015. Once Prime Minister Turnbull was appointed the field was opened up to the 3 contestants (Germany, France and Japan) with a normally 3 year submarine selection period being compressed into 7 months (September 2015 to April 2016).

Turnbull chose to rapidly publicise the Future Submarine winner on April 26, 2016 in order to win South Australian votes in the early July 2, 2016 National Election. With the pork barrel of a $50 Billion project mainly at Osborne, Adelaide, South Australia Turnbull’s submarine-to-win-the-election-strategy succeeded in getting his government over the line by one crucial electorate/district/seat/vote.

Naval Group (then DCNS) had to publicly react quickly to Turnbull’s premature (April 26, 2016) announcement with as positive and concrete a submarine package as possible. For example Naval Group’s concept submarine was termed the “Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A” to indicate to the public that it was a solid building block in a highly developed submarine program. Shortfin was also presented as a conventional outgrowth of an already highly developed Barracuda nuclear submarine program.

Final Issues To Be Decided In Years To Come

In fact in a huge submarine program specific submarine characteristics can only be assessed and finalised once a finalised scale model can be hydro-dynamically tested or even after the full-sized first of class begins trials in the open sea (noise? cavitation?) in about 2031. Issues include:

-  length will fluctuate depending on many variables including the size of the bow sonar (Lockheed
   Martin (LM) input as one small part of its combat system) and whether a pump jet is added or
-  diameter could fluctuate (how many decks, bunk sizes and numbers, arrangement of how many
   torpedo tubes (LM), VLS? how many and size of diesels, batteries, fuel tanks, water ballast?
-  fuel cell AIP? inefficient to carry the LOX over Australia’s long transit distances, lack of
   observable French progress with Fuel Cell and lack of observable RAN interest
-  the first pump jet as standard on a SSK class. This would be a radical solution for the
   technologically conservative RAN 
-  RAN conservatism would also likely reject Australia becoming the second LIBs user after Japan.

At 8/10/17 5:13 PM someone with access to Naval Group thinking commented, in part:

“I think you will find that the [Australian Government] govt was well aware that both the DCNS & TKMS designs were just concepts (basic design only). Both required complete detailed design from scratch. Both would have used existing designs for reference (you don't reinvent the wheel unless you have to)...It will definitely be more like a conventional powered Barracuda than a stretched Scorpene (for a start you would have to stretch a Scorpene in all directions, not just make it longer)...”

A submarine builder’s technical design knowledge base, influencing future submarine designs, often goes back a century. The designs of the Scorpenes and Barracudas are only the latest. See the Table below.

Naval Group Submarine Development TABLE (by Pete)

(how many built?)
First Sub Laid Down
Last Sub Commissioned
Some still building?
Classes pre Agosta
26 Daphne
1863 the Plongeur 
1957 France only
many classes pre 1957
1975 France & Export
No. eg. WWI era. Interwar and WWII 
Redoutable SSBNs
6 built France only
1964 (1st commissioned 1971
Agosta SSKs
13 built
Early 1970s French, Spanish & Pak Navy
2006, 3 Spanish, 5 Pakistani remain
Rubis SSNs
6 built 2,500 tonnes
Re-commissioned as AMETHYSTEs
Rebuilds of the 6 existing Rubis SSNs
Triomphant SSBNs
4 built
Scorpene SSKs (14 total)
2 built---------------------
2 built---------------------
1 built so far

1999 O’Higgins Chile
2009 INS Kalvari India
2010 SBR-1-4 Brazil

2009 Malaysia
2016 (1st planned)
2020 (1st SBR-1)

5 x Kalvaris 1 per year
4 x SBRs (1 per year)
SN-BR SSN just 1 DCNS designing non-nuclear portion. 4 to 5,000 tonnes.
2024 (maybe) after the
Brazil building reactor.
2034 (or later) likely. Also depends on Brazilian economy.
1 in medium-long term
French only SSNs
6 planned
2029 for the last of the six
2052? Assuming all are SSKs? 1 built/2 years?
France’s Next Generation SSBN (SSBN NG)
4 likely
Armed with 10? to 16? M51.3 SLBMs

2050? Assuming one sub built every two years