August 27, 2015

Soryu Double and Single Hull Sections Diagram



Assembling detailed information on submarines is a “bit at a time” job - from comments “August 25, 2015 at 6:31 PMhttp://gentleseas.blogspot.com.au/2015/08/ss-response-to-7-problems-with-japanese.html Soryu structural diagram above was provided.

Diagram made open source at http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/wispywood2344/imgs/8/b/8b3c1df9.png with the following notes:

The Soryu hull structure consists of six sections. From right-hand side head to left-hand side tail the:

i)  first section (head) has double and single hull structures [Pete Comment – complicated due to varying loads/considerations as bow streamlining, sonars, torpedo tubes, front escape tube and hatch to sail];

ii)  second, third and fourth sections have a single hull structure;

iii)  fifth and sixth sections have double hull structures. [Pete Comment – complicated due to rear escape tube and rudder-propeller hydrodynamics considerations]

The double hull consists of the outer non-pressure hull (non-magnetic alloy) and the inner pressure hull (magnetic NS-80). The inner pressure hull (NS-80) is not as strong as the single pressure hull (NS-110), because the outer hull (alloy) shows high strength.

The single pressure hull is made of low magnetic NS-110, in S’s opinion.


At a comment on August 28, 2015 at 12:38 AM S added – Earlier post WWII Japanese submarines has been using double hull structures, but from 1994 Oyashio class submarins adopted a hybrid single and double hull structure. In part this facilitated the introduction of further sound absorber material and a long flank sonar array.


S added comments commented about the German designed Type 214 submarine that also use a flank sonar array. The 214’s single hull structure is made of HY-100 [1] or HY-80/HY-100 [2]. S also noted that in the 1980s DSTO of Australia’s Department of Defence reported properties of HY-100 and highly appreciated it [3]. But, I worry about the combination of following two factors which may make a HY100 hull relatively higher magnetic. These factors are: i) relatively low contents of Ni (2.67-3.57%) and Cr (1.29-1.86) (see Table 1a, page 10) and concerning the same DSTO document [4], ii) single hull structure in which hull is directly exposed to surrounding water without shielding by a non-magnetic alloy. At present HY-100 may be adequate but we should think of future advances in ASW magnetic detection technology.

[For a future Australian submarine] To achieve overall low magnetism for this submarine (as it will not use NS-110) new low magnetic and high strength steel is needed for the single pressure hull, i.e. first partial area and second/third/fourth areas.

Please connect with - Submarine Matters' Japanese Submarines - Critical operational life and hull cutting issues, August 7, 2015

Pete Comment

So given hybrid single-double designs the difference between “double-hulled” and “single-hulled" submarines is not as distinct as is generally thought. Rather it is as complex as most other submarine matters. In the absence of NS-110 use there are various steels from HY-100 and approaching NS-110/HY-156 that may be appropriate.

Pete

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Japanese submarine used to adopt double hull structure, but Oyashio class submarine adopted hybrid single and double hull structure for introduction of sound absorber and long flank sonar array. Type 214 submarine uses flank sonar array too, but adopts single hull structure made of HY100 [1] or HY80/HY100[2]. Department of Defense, Australia had already reported properties of HY100 and highly appreciated it [3]. But, I worry about the combination of following two factors which may make HY100 hull to be relatively higher magnetic: i) relatively low contents of Ni (2.67-3.57%) and Cr (1.29-1.86) [4], ii) single hull structure in which hull is directly exposed to surrounding water without shielding by non-magnetic alloy. At present maybe it’s OK, but we should think future development of magnetic detection technology.

[1] http://www.naval.com.br/blog/2008/12/21/100-anos-de-submarinos-alemaes-parte-6/ (Portuguese)
In “Tipo 214: o substituto do mito?”, you can find ”O casco do U214, de 64m de comprimento, é construído em aço de alta resistência HY100, permitindo ao submarino mergulhar a profundidades superiores a 400m. ”, which means “The hull of the U214, 64m in length, is constructed of high-strength steel HY100, allowing the submarine dive to depths greater than 400m.”.
[2]http://defence.pk/threads/type-214-sub-vs-amur-1650-sub-a-laymans-analysis.155928/,
In “TYPE 214 SUBMARINE”, you can find “Type 214 is a single hull,& made up of HY-80/HY-100 High Tensile steel.”.
[3]http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a209135.pdf
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE, DEFENCE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANISATION, MATERIALS RESEARCH LABORATORY, MELBOURNE, VICTORIA, REPORT, MRL-R- 1149, “PROPERTIES OF HY-100 STEEL FOR NAVAL CONSTRUCTION”
[4] ibid, TABLE 2 Chemical Analyses

Regards

Peter Coates said...

Hi S

Thanks for that extra information on the Oyashio etc. I will add it to the text Sunday-Monday as I am on a different project until then.

Regards

Pete

Peter Coates said...

Hi S

Note that I have added material from your [August 28, 2015 12:38 AM] comment to the text.

Regards

Pete

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

Hybrid single and double hull structure is also adopted in Yasen-class, well-regarded latest Russian submarine [1].

In “Focus on universality” in [1], we can find “ It was decided that Yasen-class submarines would not make use of the double-hull structure that all Soviet submarines had at the time. However, neither did it become a single-hull submarine, like its U.S. equivalents. Two hulls ensure a submarine's reliability and buoyancy, while a single hull means noiselessness and invisibility. Yasen became something in between, having the so-called "one and a half hull" architecture, with a light hull covering only part of the submarine's pressure hull.”

[1] http://asia.rbth.com/defence/2014/06/17/russias_top-secret_nuclear_submarine_comes_into_service_37483.html

Regards
S

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

As Hull is one of decisive factor in determining character of submarine, measure the hull cost is very important. I estimated the hull cost very roughly by using two virtual submarines with same dimensions and different structure: i) Soryu type (double hull made of non-magnetic alloy and NS80, single hull made of NS110, Sail and driving rudders made of non-magnetic alloy), ii) Single hull type (single hull, upper deck, Sail and driving rudders made of NY100).

Other assumptions are as follows:
iv) I cannot show detail compositions of NS110 and non-magnetic alloy, but you can get compositions of NS80 and NY100 elsewhere. Price of component metal of steels and alloy was decided by its market price in 2015. Ni and Cr prices are quite high (15,000 and 7,500AUS/ton).

v) NY100, NS80 and NS110 plates are made of fine grain killed steel ingot. As I could not get price of these ingots, I decided price of the steel plates based on the price and ratio of component metals of the plate. Also I decided price of the alloy in the same way.

vi) Only three metals of iron, nickel and chromium are considered for convenience.

Conclusion
1)Relative prices of steel and alloy based on NY100 become: NS80(80%), NY100(100%), NS110(ca.200%), Alloy(ca.1000-1500%).

2)Structure of Soryu type may be several times expensive than single hull type. If we consider complexly of hull structure, it becomes more expensive. I image that it will become 5times or 0.5million AUS for each sub expensive than single hull type according to my prejudice.

3)Single hull type shows reasonable price, but it is magnetic and other Asian countries can afford it in future. Soryu type shows high price, but it has relatively innovative structure and other countries cannot get it, because Japan does not share the technologies except Australia.

Again estimation is very rough. But we should show some figures to get somewhat concrete image.

Regards
S

Peter Coates said...

Hi S

Thanks for your above comments at August 31, 2015 at 2:55 AM and August 31, 2015 at 9:02 PM.

I will use them in a future article.

I have not read any debate in Australia about Australia adopting a double hull design for the future submarine. So I think Australia will continue the single hull tradition (already seen in the Oberon then the Collins).

Regards

Pete

Anonymous said...

Hi Pete

To August 31, 2015 at 10:11 PM

If Australia is considering single hull structure, Japan should decline the competitive evaluation process. Because the architecture change from hybrid double and single hull to single hull is too big to deal with, it means building different submarine. KHI and MHI do not have capacity and manpower to design and build two kinds of submarine.

Regards
S

Peter Coates said...

Hi S

I think there are usually hybrid aspects of submarine hulls particularly:

- at the front with outer hull for streamlining and forming outer cover for large bow sonar(?)

- at the rear for streamlining and mounting rudders

So hybrid may be what Australia and Japan have in common.

Regards

Pete

wispywood2344 said...

Hi Pete.

I drew an cut-away diagram of Soryu class submarine again.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/wispywood2344/others/Soryu_cutaway.svg

This is more accurate/exact than my previous work.

Regards

wispywood2344

Peter Coates said...

Hi wispywood2344 [October 25, 2015 at 5:41 PM]

Thanks. I will display http://blog.livedoor.jp/wispywood2344/others/Soryu_cutaway.svg tomorrow.

Your new diagram is unique, very special :)

Regards

Pete